Bush, Chertoff warned about catastrophe and possible levee breaches - new video

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


You realize that most people except for senior department (cabinet level posts) heads in both these organizations FEMA and Army Corp of Engineers are career people and that they in fact are the people that run the day to day simulations. Your attempt to say these are appointees of Bush is laughable.

As for my talking points regarding talk radio. Nope. Simple research and my own expereince coming into play as an operations engineer and knowledge of crisis management, crisis simulation drills etc. as well as my time spent in consulting engineering.

If you desire is to discredit and lay blame on these organizations for not having the foresight to anticipate the worst eventuality I grant you that. But it is not due to bad appointees however bad Brownie and other senior appointments actually might have been.

It doesn't really matter what the line is doing when the brains is out to lunch.

You can have the best squad around and still fail under poor leadership.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


It doesn't really matter what the line is doing when the brains is out to lunch.

You can have the best squad around and still fail under poor leadership.

Funny how you seem to think that organizations aren't self autonomous relying on procedures and beuracratic systems when it comes to day to day operations including some of their more mundane mandates such as crisis simulations. It's when the organizations become stressed via crisis that the type of leadership you talk to becomes all important.

Its akin to NASA, normally they are perceived as a by the numbers organization that is competent and skilled yet bound by procedure on a day to day basis. When Apollo 13 occurred they needed leadership of the likes of Gene "Failure is not an option" Kranz.

If Gene Kranz wasn't there during noncrisis times that didn't necessarily make NASA a less creditable agency to speak towards space travel, as in the words of Michael the Great "Thats their job doofus."

[Ted Striker]

Leadership is not only crisis management it is also competent administration

Which goes all the way to the top

[NeOmega]

Bush was so concerened, he asked 0 questions.

The Bush-lovers can attempt all the damage control they want, this will be a black mark on Bush's record, and inevitably will make him look weak on national defense in the war on terrorism. His credibility, standing as a good leader, and his competance came into serious questioning after Katrina. This tape shows how little he was concerned about a disaster of epic proportions, or as one of the guys said, "this is the big one"

So you guys can continue to delude yourselves, over whether the levees being topped or breached was a concern, because you are showing more concern than Bush ever did... frankly, it looked like all he did was spout what he probably says at every meeting, "we are prepared", because that cuts the meeting short, and allows him to get back to his vacation in Northern Idaho.

Brown took the heat, agreed to take the heat, assuming Bush would remain loyal to him, but Bush dropped him, and now Brown is angry.

Bush's administration is full of incompetant fools, Brown is a prime example why he keeps them.


...and National Geographic wrote a worst case scenario a couple of years ago, predicting this very disaster was the most likely to happen. But Bush dosn't read the papers.


....AND lets not forget, it actually took the fool 2 days to make any kind of statement about the disaster. I don't think anyone in the affected region, who had access to media, will ever forget the feeling of going 48 hours without their president even acknowledging the crisis they were facing. Even the staunchest of Bush lovers in the disaster area must have felt betrayed by this.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Gee, Thats all news to me and apparently the Army Corp of Engineers.

ACE isn't really a bastion of truth these days. A lotta CYA goin' on (not just their's but also the Prez's). If you ever seen a levee topped by a flood, you'll likely have seen the levee start to erode, and then fail. I remember the 1993 floods along the Mississippi quite well, being a MidWesterner.

The first surge came up a canal, overtopped the levee, and the flowing water ripped the top open and then pulled the whole section down.

Also, the scenario didn't know how badly undermaintained and under built the original levees were.

Point is, the Adminstration was told that this was the big one, and they fubared.

[chequita guevara]

Bush had to be handed a DVD of the news coverage of the first four days of the disaster because he hadn't been paying attention when it was happening.

I say, just cut Bush loose in New Orleans without any SS.