Bush, Chertoff warned about catastrophe and possible levee breaches - new video

[Ted Striker]

Yep

[DaShi]

Clearly the American people need to be 'educated' on leevees and what really happened during Katrina.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


But fortunately we can always count on the knee jerk hate Bush crowd to keep us abreast of each and every mischaracterization.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Actually, topping leads to breaching in very rapid order. So if they expected it to top, they should have expected it to breach. That's what caused the first breach, actually. The second breach was caused by subsidence; the water weighed more than the earth trying to hold is back, so the earth gave.

Gee, Thats all news to me and apparently the Army Corp of Engineers.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Yep

Your most intelligent post in the thread, congrats on the marked improvement.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Actually, topping leads to breaching in very rapid order. So if they expected it to top, they should have expected it to breach. That's what caused the first breach, actually. The second breach was caused by subsidence; the water weighed more than the earth trying to hold is back, so the earth gave.

Again this maybe purely 20/20 hindsight but I reiterate the so called experts namely the Army Corp of Engineers did not envision such a failure.

In response to questions from local papers prior tothe event according to Slate the Army Corp of Engineers weighed in on the matter as follows:

The weakness of the levees was underscored in a 2002 wide-ranging exploration of New Orleans' hurricane vulnerability by the New Orleans Times-Picayune, one of many grimly vindicated Cassandras. The U.S. Army Corp of Engineers, which built the levees and continues to manage them, told the paper then that there was little threat of a levee's collapse.

Moreover in a 2003/2004(?) FEMA simulation a direct hit from a fictional Hurricane 'Pam' resulted in massive flooding but was envisioned in the form of topping of the levees not however as a levee failure and in fact no mention of levee failure was in the report that I can find.

Again I reiterate these are moot points as the damage was done regardless of mechanism and the potential catastrophe was similarly underscored regardless of mechanism (especially in the FEMA 'Pam' simulation). My point is however the attempt to show Bush a liar is foolish. He, his agencies, and of course the local governments (both state and city) deserve lavish scorn for their lack of response and sense of urgency but not for misrepresenting the fact that neither he, his myrmidons, nor the so called experts namely army corp of engineers ever envisioned failure of the levees.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sikander


Your most intelligent post in the thread, congrats on the marked improvement.

Congrats on your 15th post in a row exclusivley dedicated to me!

I'm flattered, but you're not getting my phone number girlfriend.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Again this maybe purely 20/20 hindsight but I reiterate the so called experts namely the Army Corp of Engineers did not envision such a failure.

In response to questions from local papers prior tothe event according to Slate the Army Corp of Engineers weighed in on the matter as follows:



Moreover in a 2003/2004(?) FEMA simulation a direct hit from a fictional Hurricane 'Pam' resulted in massive flooding but was envisioned in the form of topping of the levees not however as a levee failure and in fact no mention of levee failure was in the report that I can find.

Again I reiterate these are moot points as the damage was done regardless of mechanism and the potential catastrophe was similarly underscored regardless of mechanism (especially in the FEMA 'Pam' simulation). My point is however the attempt to show Bush a liar is foolish. He, his agencies, and of course the local governments (both state and city) deserve lavish scorn for their lack of response and sense of urgency but not for misrepresenting the fact that neither he, his myrmidons, nor the so called experts namely army corp of engineers ever envisioned failure of the levees.

Is this the same Corps of Engineers that has been accused of two different engineering groups of taking shortcutes to rebuild the levees?

Is this the same FEMA that botched one of the worst disaster responses in the history of this country?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


Is this the same Corps of Engineers that has been accused of two different engineering groups of taking shortcutes to rebuild the levees?

Is this the same FEMA that botched one of the worst disaster responses in the history of this country?

Your point?

[Drake Tungsten]

You were expecting one?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Not particularly.

[Ted Striker]

As with most things nice try to minimize and rationalize

You're citing two "expert" groups which are both questionable. especially FEMA itself who totally dropped the ball during the disaster. Oh but now they are experts when it comes to hurricane analysis? Well which one is it? Or hey, isn't that a good thing? That relieves Bush of his repsonsibility! He was told by the experts (the ones he appointed) and relied on their info! So not his fault! Defend the President at all costs! We serve him he doesn't serve us! Cool!

That's not hard to read into unless you follow hands over the ears knee conservative jerk talk radio where there are some wild rationalizations designed to muddy the issue.

It's kinda scary you all come out with the same message and even the same talking points almost word for word.

Your think tanks come up with some silly rationalization and then drop it to the talk shows, by the evening the tv hacks have listened to it and are spreading the message then you guys will come here and "spread the word."

It's a very effective network, as misguiding as it is.

Very scary actually, like a high school gossip chain organized and on crack.

But somehow in all this the fact that a bunch of people died by water spilling into the city, because the defense system in place could not handle it, regardless of whether it was "breaches" or "topped," gets muddled as a free ticket, by a new nation of self proclaimed levee experts trying to differentiate between 6 and 1 half dozen.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Congrats on your 15th post in a row exclusivley dedicated to me!

I'm flattered, but you're not getting my phone number girlfriend.

Wrong.

Poor Ted. Even when he's right (Bush is a tool) he's wrong.

Perhaps you should look elsewhere if you simply want to bash Bush without getting your ass kicked in debate or hurting your poor head by having to think. Perhaps the Daily Kos or D.U. will have pity and take you in. Just give the
a lot and no one will suspect that you're such a dim bulb.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
As with most things nice try to minimize and rationalize

You're citing two "expert" groups which are both questionable. especially FEMA itself who totally dropped the ball during the disaster. Oh but now they are experts when it comes to hurricane analysis? Well which one is it? Or hey, isn't that a good thing? That relieves Bush of his repsonsibility! He was told by the experts (the ones he appointed) and relied on their info! So not his fault! Defend the President at all costs! We serve him he doesn't serve us! Cool!

You realize that most people except for senior department (cabinet level posts) heads in both these organizations FEMA and Army Corp of Engineers are career people and that they in fact are the people that run the day to day simulations. Your attempt to say these are appointees of Bush is laughable.

As for my talking points regarding talk radio. Nope. Simple research and my own expereince coming into play as an operations engineer and knowledge of crisis management, crisis simulation drills etc. as well as my time spent in consulting engineering.

If you desire is to discredit and lay blame on these organizations for not having the foresight to anticipate the worst eventuality I grant you that. But it is not due to bad appointees however bad Brownie and other senior appointments actually might have been.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sikander


Wrong.

Poor Ted. Even when he's right (Bush is a tool) he's wrong.

Perhaps you should look elsewhere if you simply want to bash Bush without getting your ass kicked in debate or hurting your poor head by having to think. Perhaps the Daily Kos or D.U. will have pity and take you in. Just give the
a lot and no one will suspect that you're such a dim bulb.

LOL

1) You're inflating my ego by talking about me and not the topic

2) Your strong reaction shows I've completley gotten under your skin and you can't stand it


I think your posts in this thread about the levees were great though. Oh wait, you didn't make posts about the levees, you made posts about ME

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA k GG