85% of US Soldiers Think They're Fighting Because of Saddam's Role in 9/11

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Couldn't the realization that Iraq was turning into a quagmire over that year+ have soured the troops serving there?

That wasn't the original claim. The claim made in the OP was that 85% of the soldiers thought Saddam caused 9/11 which is antithetical to my experience. I could see people soured on the war in the last year but I can't imagine a vast shift where more people suddenly believe Saddam caused 9/11.

[binTravkin]

but I can't imagine a vast shift where more people suddenly believe Saddam caused 9/11

I believe they believed in it from the start, or were made to by heavy army propaganda.

[Dinner]

I never saw such propaganda.

[Az]

Yes, you imagine.
Shows your lack of kowledge and understanding on the topic.

Wait, they operate inside solid matter? pray tell.

And american fat people run around difficult terrain, at high speeds jumping, shooting and doing other crazy things.
They're perfectly suited for that, right? WRONG.

no no, they don't. However when they do, they leave potholes I've shown you that there is no problem for the soil to carry them. I didn't claim that fat people are sportive. It was just a comparison of pressure on surfaces. it's obvious robots will have powerplants stronger than the human body.

A Handheld Bazooka weighs no less than 8kg, one it's missile weighs around 5kg.

yes, but do you want a guided missile, or a non guided one?

for example, again, very oldskool:
RPG-7, launcher is 6.3 kgms
the rounds can vary from 2.2 kgms to 4.5kgms. we can load 5 of the latter, of 10 of the former. depending on the configuration.

as to rounds, you don't have to use a gattling gun? why would you do that? you use them to attack human opponents, yes? How about two machineguns? two of those weigh <15 kgs.

they'll use 5.56 ammo, and at ~5 gr per round . 8000 of them will weigh 40 kgs.

so far, 40+15+6.5+2.2*10(for example)=81.5kgm.

I'll duscuss the powerplant and structure slightly later.

[Sandman]

You know, I don't think it's possible to create alchemist's stone-style nanobots that can 'dissolve all matter'.

[Gibsie]

threadjacktacular!

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Oerdin


That wasn't the original claim. The claim made in the OP was that 85% of the soldiers thought Saddam caused 9/11 which is antithetical to my experience. I could see people soured on the war in the last year but I can't imagine a vast shift where more people suddenly believe Saddam caused 9/11.

If that isnt what most believe, what is what most believe?

the md weapons? just to bring them freedom?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I never saw such propaganda.

but you were Psyops, the propaganda itself (though for Iraqis not the army) ... perhaps you were spared

more seriously, the numbers are certainly striking, and I highly doubt that this could be a "accidental" occurence, even for a push poll those numbers are extraordinarily high. Perhaps they were only testing the infantry or some such units who might be more susceptible to such ideas?!? Still if 50% of Fox viewers in US with free access to information believe the same, than it is perhaps less suprizing that is the case in the army. More suprizing that you didn't encounter it at large. Overall not really understandable - but propaganda is most likely solution, or totally bogus poll numbers which is not too likely either as the poll was conducted by Zogby.

[binTravkin]

Wait, they operate inside solid matter? pray tell.

There are organisms that operate inside soil.
There are devices that thrust through solid matter with technical means.
Assuming nanorobots do it through chemical means, what problem there could be (except for some very stable materials)?
pray tell.

it's obvious robots will have powerplants stronger than the human body.

Powerplants have nothing to do with pressure on soil except maybe their weight.

you use them to attack human opponents, yes?

Umm, human opponents in a world where semi-AI mechs run around?
Or are you assuming vast technological superiority?

[Dinner]

I strongly suspect that the part about people thinking Saddam caused 9/11 and/or was protecting Al Qaeda is the result of a push poll. If they used a push pull on that question then it makes me wonder what else they push polled.

I want to see how many people they asked, what type of units those people were in, where they were stationed in Iraq, what the date of the polling was, along with exactly what they asked & how they asked it. Polls are among the easiest things to skew and one of the hardest to get right so extraordinary poll results need to be looked at very carefully and be confirmed by multiple polls done by people who don't have an obvious bone to pick.

There is a very high likelihood that hasn't happened.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I want to see how many people they asked, what type of units those people were in, where they were stationed in Iraq, what the date of the polling was, along with exactly what they asked & how they asked it. Polls are among the easiest things to skew and one of the hardest to get right so extraordinary poll results need to be looked at very carefully and be confirmed by multiple polls done by people who don't have an obvious bone to pick.

I know this is anecdotal, but I have two friends in the Navy who still swear that Sadaam was the real person behind 9/11. Even when confronted with an article quoting Bush denying Sadaam's invlovement, they merely say something like "that's just what they tell the media to protect the really secret info." I then point out that W would point out anything to help his credibility (and proof that Sadaam some way collaborated in 9/11 would be a huge boon for the administration and a real justification for the invasion), and that the administration hasn't hesitated to risk the identities of secret agents in the past if it has helped their agenda. The only response is that "the media doesn't know everything."

This just may mean that my friends are somewhat stupid, but from my experience they're smarter than the average low grade enlisted men. I really wouldn't be surprised if 75%+ stll believed that Sadaam was behind the attacks.

[Az]

There are organisms that operate inside soil.
There are devices that thrust through solid matter with technical means.
Assuming nanorobots do it through chemical means, what problem there could be (except for some very stable materials)?
pray tell.

Of course that it might be possible to construct nanobots that would be able to borrow through a particular plating of such a robot. But they'll have to get into it's macroscopic viscinity first. Even without assuming that they won't be self-replicating ( and I strongly suspect they won't be able to) , these giant molecules will have to travel to the robot. Unless you're suggesting that the whole earth will be full of nanites that will be able to eat through anything, ( and that's not the way microbes do it, they travel in microscopic pores in the soil mostly ), they'll have to do it through the air, exposing themselves to UV, which could be turned on on demand, as soon as the first nanites are detected ( and we already have reached these analytical levels, to my knowledge, or will certainly reach them before largely self-sufficient controlled nanites ). Broad-spectrum UV lighting, will damage any such fine structures far beyond usability. If you're discussing some sort of local deployment system of a macroscopic scale, like a nanite gun, then it's just another weapon platform waiting to be destroyed.

Powerplants have nothing to do with pressure on soil except maybe their weight.

I wasn't talking about their pressure, I thought you conceeded the point that even the fattest of people can run around and jump around the town without even damaging the ashpalt or concrete. Trucks apply much more pressure.

Umm, human opponents in a world where semi-AI mechs run around?
Or are you assuming vast technological superiority?

Even in the "diamond age", there will be people to conquer, and occupations to enforce. In the battlefield, they may have to engage other robots, and even in that case, machineguns might be able deal damage. Assuming a somewhat farther away down the future scenario, railguns slinging ultra-high velocity pellets might further lighten the weight of a single round, thought this might be have to be compensated by a bigger energy pack and power plant.

[Lord Avalon]

US media = owned by big corporations
Actual news = bad for profits
Therefore - more fluff reporting (Britney Spears, etc.)

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Winston




Wrong, those are MANINES.

D'oh!

Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Essential.

[Winston]