Legalise prostitution? I'm for it!!

[Flubber]

Originally posted by MrFun
Some people seem to justify legalization of prostitution based on the simplistic, naive argument that if the women want to put out for money, there's no "coercion" so therefore, it's morally acceptable. This ignores other covert forms of coercion.

The "covert" coercion is probably the same one that makes me go to work every day. . . Pretty much everyone needs money so they need a way to earn it.

But if prostitution is just another means to earn money, then this coercion is no more morally unacceptable than that felt by the janitor to work.

Its only if you see something morally reprehensible with prostitution itself that would lead you to moral problems related to coercion to earn-- in this context

[Dis]

Originally posted by Flubber


I don't see much in the way of arguments about benefits. The benefit to the woman if she is working for herself is cash , nothing more and the risks are many and varied.

I hope that law enforcement can crush the pimps and exploiters. But if a rational woman in control of her own choices ( to the extent that most people are) decides freely to do this, I don't see where anyone has the right to stop her.

Some people shovel crap for a living, some grind away in a windowless cubicle . . Lots of people have jobs that I or you might not do, or approve of.

Unless you are going to get all moralistic , how is it different if a person wants to provide sexual pleasure to others as their job? I'm agreed that exploitation has existed and does exist. But if a pro "freely" does this since she can earn 2000 a week , where is the exploitation?

This is how I feel. I feel shovelling crap is more demeaning. I can't help but think attempts to outlaw prostitution is just more action by men dicatating how women should live their life and what they should do with their body. If anything, I see it as a means of controlling peoples actions. I thought we moved past the era where men dictated that women should act a certain way.

Yes prostitution is a serious problem in many countries. And occasionally you see human trafficking in the U.S. But that is only for the illegal prostitution trade. But I'd say Canada, and the U.S. have this slavery problem pretty well under control. We do have occasional problems with immigrants being smuggled. But again, I have rarely seen immigrants work in legalized prostitution. They are not being forced to work to pay off debts in Nevada brothels. The massage parlor and escort business is a different matter, however... If there were some regulation in these industries, it would not be a concern. But these industries are spreading rapidly in Las Vegas where prostitution is illegal. Sad really. Because we really don't know what's going on with these girls.

The problem with the dutch, is their industry is very loosely regulated. I have seen this in the dutch carribean islands. If LE does their job, you wouldn't see problems of women being forced to work to pay off debts. The simple solution would be licensing for all the workers and credit checks. my city routinely performs credit checks on their employees (it's supposed to measure trustworthiness which I think is bull****- but that's another topic).

[Dis]

Originally posted by MrFun



I don't find your rolling-eyes smilie intimidating.



BREAKING NEWS -- JUST IN -- there are women who live today, in other parts of the world, where they truly are still oppressed!!

Who'd had thunk it?

So we should base our laws on other countries that can't get their **** together?

[Dis]

Originally posted by Flubber


Irrelevant . . . I would see the same discussion taking place about a man that wished to be a prostitute .

I'm guessing a male prostitute should be less busy since there are any number of men willing to provide sex for free, but apparently there is an existing trade in this as well.

Heidi Fleiss is currently been hanging around Las Vegas. She wants to open a brothel about 60 miles NW of Vegas with men prostitutes. I predict this venture will fail and go limp. . Unless they are willing to perform gay sex that is. Then it will do very well. We already have a surplus of men to women in Vegas. What do they need prostitutes for?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Flubber


The "covert" coercion is probably the same one that makes me go to work every day. . . Pretty much everyone needs money so they need a way to earn it.

But if prostitution is just another means to earn money, then this coercion is no more morally unacceptable than that felt by the janitor to work.

Its only if you see something morally reprehensible with prostitution itself that would lead you to moral problems related to coercion to earn-- in this context

There are legitimate reasons to find prositution morally unacceptable -- reread Cybershy's posts.

I agree with his points.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MrFun
There are legitimate reasons to find prositution morally unacceptable -- reread Cybershy's posts.

I try not to. No matter what the topic.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


I try not to. No matter what the topic.

One of the fundamentals in participating in debates is to READ and LISTEN to the opposing side's arguments so you can better construct your own arguments.




GEEZ -- you're a lawyer now!?!?

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you read and listen to the KKK's "arguments"?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Dis
This is how I feel. I feel shovelling crap is more demeaning.

To each his own.

Originally posted by Dis
I can't help but think attempts to outlaw prostitution is just more action by men dicatating how women should live their life and what they should do with their body.

Com'on, there are male prostitutes as well.

Originally posted by Dis
If anything, I see it as a means of controlling peoples actions.

A lot of laws, rules, regulations and ordinances are for controlling people's actions.

Originally posted by Dis
The problem with the dutch, is their industry is very loosely regulated. I have seen this in the dutch carribean islands. If LE does their job, you wouldn't see problems of women being forced to work to pay off debts.

Where did they get them debts?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So you read and listen to the KKK's "arguments"?

First of all, I would like to think that Cybershy is much more reasonable, mentally stable, and intelligent than your average KKK member so that when you do listen to Cybershy, you actually appreciate valid points he makes -- whether you agree, or disagree.


Secondly, sometimes you really need to look at the ugly under the microscope if you want to better understand something terrible that happened -- for instance, to understand the Holocaust much better, one could read Hitler's Mein Kempf without ever accepting or agreeing with one word he wrote.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But I don't want to understand Cybershy better

[Berzerker]

Of course there are a lot of woman who do it with full knowledge, completely voluntairy.

But you may wonder if you visit a prostitute or watch porn:

1. is this girl doing this because she wants to do it or because she's forced to do it?

2. has this girl been raped or abused in the past? And am I factually taking advantage of her?

3. is this girl doing this because she really needs the money to help her poor family?

1 Forced? You mean, like raped?

2 How would I know and why am I responsible for the choices she makes later on in life? If a young woman is raped and the trauma leads her to becoming a nun, is the Church taking advantage of her? Is Jesus taking advantage? It does seem alot of people become religious as a result of some emotional trauma.

3 Does it matter? We all do things we wouldn't normally do of our own volition to get stuff we want. Now we have to psycho-analyse everyone we associate with to ascertain the worthiness of their motives?

I'm 100% sure that people who watch porn or visit hookers on a regular base are responsible for this.
And since there's a huge market for porn, the abuse will continue.

Of course people don't like it I say this and will come with all kinds of excuses. But in the end it's just your penis that's talking. You do not want it because you're rational brain knows it's good an ok. You just it because you're horny and need some relief.

If you want to ban prostitution, you need to explain how the situation you help create with pimps, abused women lacking legal and societal protection, disease, jails, etc., is better than the situation created by legalisation where these negatives are reduced or eliminated. Abusing women under the guise of defending them from abuse is hardly rational...or moral...

[Berzerker]

harumph

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MrFun

There are legitimate reasons to find prositution morally unacceptable -- reread Cybershy's posts.

I agree with his points.

How many prostitutes have been found dead in a dumpster, or in a field, where he is from lately?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by MrFun



There are legitimate reasons to find prositution morally unacceptable -- reread Cybershy's posts.

I agree with his points.

I reread Cybershy's posts. It seems that in his country that prostitution has been legalized but they have missed out on doing any effective regulation. Their experience does not HAVE to be the way it is.


Also, in a legalization debate, the choices are not prostitution or no prostitution. Everyone acknowledges that it will NOT be eliminated so the only question is the form that it takes. I see many benefits in making the trade more open and legal, the primary being one that it may be possible to better protect the girls .

So you don't like prostitution. Fine I don't like it either but my or your distaste for it are frankly irrelevant.

Oh and a disproportionate number of rape counsellors have themselves been raped or sexually abused. Is this a reason to find this job morally reprehensible?