Ratko Mladic arrested

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Sava

If the Hispanics in the Southwest of the US tried to declare independence, America would do the EXACT same thing the Serbs did. In fact, Israel is doing the same thing the Serbs did, but it doesn't get called "ethnic cleansing"... DOES IT?

In fact, Israel is fast becoming the new Serbia in terms of international pariahship. Huge swathes of western liberal opinion hold both Serbia and Israel guilty of Nazi-style policies and crimes, and are for the most part not interested in hearing reasoned arguments to the contrary.

Both countries are held responsible for all the problems in their region, are surrounded by enemies, and are blamed for all current conflicts. Both Jews and Serbs suffered at the hands of the Ottomans and the Nazis, and both are hated by contemporary Islamists, and both are pivotal in Islamo-nationalist propaganda.

Often I find that people who defend Israel for defending itself can't extend the same model to Serbia, and to Serbs in the former SFRY. Likewise many who defend Serbia for defending itself can't extend the same model to Israel.

For me, I didn't have a position in defence of Israel until the so-called 'Jenin Massacre' a few years ago. I watched the news reports and thought "hey, I've seen this movie before" - and I'd watched it time and time again - but in the Balkans theatre. Pre-judged 'atrocity footage' with designated bad guy and designated victim. Israel was tried and convicted by media ... yet in the subsequent cold glare of the facts there was no massacre at Jenin.

I expect there are plenty of posters on this forum that will defend Israel's right to defend itself, but not Serbia's. If, one day, they come to discover that the two peoples face a similar foe, perhaps they'll see things differently.

[VetLegion]

Cort Haus, here are two documents on the official site of the government of Bosnian Sebs. They are the reports by the Serbian government's investigation commission:

http://www.vladars.net/pdf/srebr_final_s_l.pdf

http://www.vladars.net/pdf/srebr.pdf

It's in Serbian, I won't translate it all. Suffice to say that the commission has concluded that "multiple thousands of muslims have been killed in Srebrenica (10.-19. july 1995.) in a way that constitutes heavy breach of humanitatian right". Also, the commission says that it "feels the need to recommend to the leadership of RS to bow to the victims and apologize to the families".

Whether the government actually did so, I am not aware.

As for the Hague tribunal, it has been performing pretty well so far. The transcripts and the verdicts and everything else is online in several languages, so it's open to public scrutiny. So far, I haven't heard much negative comment about the court's professionalism.

[VetLegion]

Here is something. Conclusions of the Bosnian Serb government based on the reports I linked above:

http://www.b92.net/doc/srebrenica/zakljucci.php

6. Vlada Republike Srpske saosjeća sa bolom srodnika postradalih Srebreničana, uz iskreno žaljenje i izvinjenje zbog tragedije koja im se dogodila.

I'll translate:

"6. The Government of Republika Srpska symphatises with the pain of the relatives of Srebrenica victims, with sincere regret and apologies for the tragedy that happened to them."

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
And I'm still waiting for something that backs up your claim the tribunal isn't following due process of law and doesn't provide a level playing field.

Well please don't hang around waiting for me to respond as if we were in a private chat. I'll post when I can.

The disparity between the time allowed for the prosecution against the defence in SM's case, for a start. Number of witnesses, preparation time, access to documents, access to healthcare. One side has the entire military, diplomatic, economic and legal might of 19 of the richest countries in the world at its disposal, backed by a hundred NGOs and a thousand media outlets. The other side has a bloke in a cell with a phone, fax, PC, and a filing cabinet.

Because there has been no evidence so far linking Milosevic to anything, the prosecution case rests on a bizzare construct called a 'Joint Criminal Conspiracy', which I understand is legally unprecedented.

He is charged with political crimes, but denied the opportunity to defend himself in a political context.

The prosecution is allowed to call whoever it likes, but when SM tried to call people like Tony Blair & Bill Clinton, Wesley Clark etc to the stand this is not permitted. What better witnesses to a war could you get than the people that declared it? These people should have testified and faced questions.

It's getting late and I must stop posting, so I'll leave it there for now.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

well even holocaust has its deniers no dobt that srebrenica would have a fair share of them too.

Here is an account of the whole case, the buildup and the massacres that happened, it covers the "deniers" too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

for every person killed there will be an apologizer somewhere...

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sava

in war, innocent people die

in war, bad things happen

Sometimes this caveman-line of thought really irks me.


People can use this pathetic retort to say that the Holocaust in World War II was a bad, but necessary by-product of the war, if they were so crazy and inclined to do so.

Same thing with the genocide in Rwanda.

[BeBMan]

In genocide, innocent people die.

In genocide, bad things happen.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


In fact, Israel is fast becoming the new Serbia in terms of international pariahship. Huge swathes of western liberal opinion hold both Serbia and Israel guilty of Nazi-style policies and crimes, and are for the most part not interested in hearing reasoned arguments to the contrary.

Yep, Godwin hits the floor again

[Vince278]

Originally posted by BeBro
In genocide, innocent people die.

In genocide, bad things happen.

Duh.

[MrFun]

Uh, Vince, I think Bebro was saracastically pointing what he and everyone else knows to be the obvious.

[Vince278]

Couldn't be too sure with no rolleye smilie.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Vince278
Couldn't be too sure with no rolleye smilie.

Ok, I will let this mistake slide this one time, but next time . . . . . . .

[Vince278]

Originally posted by MrFun
Ok, I will let this mistake slide this one time, but next time . . . . . . .

Thank-you, thank-you.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Vince278
Couldn't be too sure with no rolleye smilie.