Ratko Mladic arrested

[Wezil]

Cort Haus - I agree Srebrenica was untenable. I hold the UN culpable for what happened there in addition to Mladic.

Originally posted by Cort Haus

Serbian perpetrators of warcrimes in Kosovo were tried during and after that war by the Serbian authorities, and they are now still probably languishing in a Serbian jail, which is the correct place for them.

Can the same occur with accused serb Bosnian war criminals? There has been debate in this thread regarding the level of support for Mladic and Karadic (sp?) to this day inside Yugo. Seems to me a trial there could be just as biased in the opposite direction.

An international tribunal (not NATO) seems to me to be the best place for a fair trial.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Maybe some people are not familiar with metaphors or colloquialisms in the English language.

Judge, Jury & Executioner is an expression. It is applied to kangaroo courts that aren't real courts (due process and a level playing field). The ICTY is such a court, and it's easy to prove.

Jamie O'Shea, the NATO PR man bragged during the '99 war that the ICTY (an ad hoc UN tribunal) was set up and paid for by NATO. (With its Muslim allies keen to get themselves an 'official' Genocide on the history books).

Robin Cook said the same thing. I don't have the exact quote (got fed up with carrying a truck-load of references around with me while discussing the Balkans) but he basically squeaked and grunted that "the task of the ICTY was not to bring to book members of NATO".

If the man made such statements, it really means nothing. The hard fact is that it's a UN organisation and the financing happens by means of General Assembly resolutions.
It may be true that most of the funds originate from countries that are also NATO members and rich (couldn't find an exact breakdown), but what do you expect? Most of the NATO members are European and it's only logical they have a big responsibility in ensuring stability in the region, bringing justice to the war crimes commited being a key tool.

How does the ICJ does not have due process of law? And how does it not have a level playing field?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by BeBro


Aside from the fact that your link does say just something like "sources tell us this and that" (which does not prove anything at all) - you'd have to show that the later things reported by the BBC (and lots of other media) in 04 and 05 are related to that, and/or that they are indeed somehow fabricated.

I'm not familiar with the "October 2004 Confession" that those BBC pieces refer to, though there have been numerous attempts to strong-arm the RS leadership into toe-ing the line, and frequent media exaggerations regarding what exactly is being 'owned-up' to. An example of such distortion from the same time is Boris Tadic's statement in Sarejevo in December 04.

I'd be interested to see an English version of that 10/04 document. Acknowledgement of executions is not new, and the RS position is usually that there were hundreds, rather than thousands of these. Neither is it disputed that there were more than a thousand deaths as the 28th Division broke out, but the alternative scenario is that the BH troops were not fully disarmed and many died in combat. Some died from landmines / exposure, others were caught and shot, but thousands made it to safety.

If RS officials have made a genuine confession (and a not a blackmailed / extorted / fabricated one) to everything, as that BBC article aludes, then perhaps they can explain where the bodies are.

Ten years of digging by people with a strong vested interest in as high a body count as possible have turned up not much more than 2,000 corpses from the Srebrenica area. AIUI these have not been identified by ethnicity, time & cause of death etc to an extent that they can corroborate the official story.

No-one disputes significant casualties in 3 years of BH-BSA fighting in the area, and there were battlefield mass-graves all over Bosnia. Add to that the number of Bosnian Serb civilians killed by Oric's men in that time and it cannot be simply be assumed that those exhumed bodies are all executed muslim POWs.

So, if the RS really have 'officially' signed up, they need to make their claims credible by at least answering all their own questions that they have been raising for all these years.

{EDIT : typo}

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢


If the man made such statements, it really means nothing. The hard fact is that it's a UN organisation and the financing happens by means of General Assembly resolutions.
It may be true that most of the funds originate from countries that are also NATO members and rich (couldn't find an exact breakdown), but what do you expect? Most of the NATO members are European and it's only logical they have a big responsibility in ensuring stability in the region, bringing justice to the war crimes commited being a key tool.

How does the ICJ does not have due process of law? And how does it not have a level playing field?

The ICJ is not the ICTY.

Let me be more explicit and quote Mr O'Shea verbatim :

I believe that when Justice Arbour starts her investigation, she will because we will allow her to. It's not Milosevic that has allowed Justice Arbour her visa to go to Kosovo to carry out her investigations. If her court, as we want, is to be allowed access, it will be because of NATO so NATO is the friend of the Tribunal, NATO are the people who have been detaining indicted war criminals for the Tribunal in Bosnia. We have done it, 14 arrests so far by SFOR, and we will continue to do it.

"NATO countries are those that have provided the finance to set up the Tribunal, we are amongst the majority financiers, and of course to build a second chamber so that prosecutions can be speeded up so let me assure that we and the Tribunal are all one on this, we want to see war criminals brought to justice and I am certain that when Justice Arbour goes to Kosovo and looks at the facts she will be indicting people of Yugoslav nationality and I don't anticipate any others at this stage."

May 17, 1999 Transcript of NATO press conference by Jamie Shea & Major General W. Jertz in Brussels Transcribed by M2 PRESSWIRE (c) 1999


There you have it. It's no coincidence that NATO are funding this. They wanted it. They set it up. They paid for it. It will convict.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


The ICJ is not the ICTY.

No it isn't. I used the wrong acronym, but I was very much talking about the ICTY.

Again, it's a UN organisation. Those statements only "prove" that the NATO as such is supportive. Your claim that NATO has set up and has been funding the tribunal is flat out wrong. You might just as well argue that the EU has been controlling the tribunal since membership thereof most likely coincides as well with the funding role within the UN.
You've also failed to show in bias in the tribunal's working so far.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Wezil
There has been debate in this thread regarding the level of support for Mladic and Karadic (sp?) to this day inside Yugo. Seems to me a trial there could be just as biased in the opposite direction.

An international tribunal (not NATO) seems to me to be the best place for a fair trial.

The last thing NATO or the B-H govt want in this is a fair trial. That would mean airing the whole historical backdrop of the Oric massacres, the US-Iran-Saudi-OBL axis of covert armament, the abuse of the safe havens, the disappearance of Oric the day before the BSA offensive and the fact that 5,500 muslim troops were apparantly unable to defend the town against an advancing force of about 200 men and five tanks.

If there was a genuinely neutral body that would permit equal time and resources to both prosecution and defence, and a genuinely neutral media that would do likewise, and would also be prepared to indict leaders from other sides in the conflict for their roles, then such a trial would have my support. Sadly, I expect that no such institutions exist.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
Your claim that NATO has set up and has been funding the tribunal is flat out wrong.

The claim isn't wrong. O'Shea says :

NATO countries are those that have provided the finance to set up the Tribunal

His words refute your refutation perfectly, AFAICS.

Nevertheless, you want more, and there is lots more. I will post further proof of the ICTY bias in the days to come. Or even sooner, if I pour another beer before turning in tonight.

[Odin]

Serbian nationalists must of put something in Cort Haus's water.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Odin
Sava will come and start defending Slobo in 3... 2... 1...

that's not what I do or what I have done in the past

but for those people that don't have a brain in their ****ing heads, let me reiterate:

the Serbs were fighting TERRORISTS supported by AL QAEDA's network (like the KLA)

many of the stories reported by the western media about "serbs butchering" and "ethnic cleansing" painting a completely inaccurate picture of what was really happening there

in war, innocent people die

in war, bad things happen

but it's funny that how killing a few dozen, or couple hundred ARMED TERRORISTS gets reported as "BUTCHERING TENS OF THOUSANDS INNOCENT PEOPLE ZOMFG"

I don't care about Milosevic. I don't know what he ordered or not. Personally, I think he's a scapegoat being demonized by the West.

If the Hispanics in the Southwest of the US tried to declare independence, America would do the EXACT same thing the Serbs did. In fact, Israel is doing the same thing the Serbs did, but it doesn't get called "ethnic cleansing"... DOES IT?

****ing hypocrisy

maybe the brain-dead will eventually wake the **** up and understand this

because the people the Serbs were fighting were being supported by Al Qaeda... but somehow this just gets ignored

or maybe Odin, you should just stfu about things you know nothing about

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Odin
Serbian nationalists must of put something in Cort Haus's water.

The only thing in my water is malt, barley, hops and alcohol.

[Cort Haus]

- and it's 'must have', not 'must of'.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


The claim isn't wrong. O'Shea says :

NATO countries are those that have provided the finance to set up the Tribunal

His words refute your refutation perfectly, AFAICS.

Nevertheless, you want more, and there is lots more. I will post further proof of the ICTY bias in the days to come. Or even sooner, if I pour another beer before turning in tonight.

I already told you that being a NATO member coincedes in many cases with being a European UN member, as well as coinciding with EU membership for instance. I don't really see how you could expect otherwise, since it's exactly those countries that have committed themselves to bringing stability in the region and that have the means for and a stake in doing so. Or did you expect China to be principal funder perhaps?

And I'm still waiting for something that backs up your claim the tribunal isn't following due process of law and doesn't provide a level playing field.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢


I already told you that being a NATO member coincedes in many cases with being a European UN member, as well as coinciding with EU membership for instance. THIS ALSO COINCIDES WITH MY BIRTHDAY BUT DO ANY OF YOU R@T B@$T@RD$ TAKE TIME TO TELL ME A SIMPLE HAPPY BIRTHDAY? I don't really see how you could expect otherwise, since it's exactly those countries that have committed themselves to bringing stability in the region and that have the money for doing so. You expect China to be principal funder, or what? They didnt even give me a Birthday present

Well, ok, I will wish you a Happy Birthday Colon{tm} and hope that Chinese send a gift along as well..wait here come your parade now

[Colonâ„¢]

[VetLegion]

ROTFLMAO @ Grandpa Troll

Happy Birthday Colon