Brainwashing 101

[OzzyKP]

Does anyone else think, as a university professor, that Ag has just proven the video right?

[Kidlicious]

I think the people who made this video are deluded. It reminds me of Monte Python's "Quest for the Holy Grail" when the peasant screams out that he is being oppressed. These people are just nuts. I've had lots of conservative professors. In fact, the've all been pretty conservative in business school.

[Arrian]

Repressed. REpressed. "Help, help, I'm being repressed!"



-Arrian

p.s. And he IS being repressed at one point, anyway.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Agathon
A philosopher I am acquainted with was hired to produce a series of short primers on various political ideologies. When he got to conservatism (I believe the Libertarians were treated separately) he found it really difficult to write for the simple reason that there is no real thought behind it.

Assuming that how much is published about an ideology is an adequate proxy for how much its adherents think, socialists think alot more than liberals, who in turn think much more than do conservatives.

Now, I don't need have the problems with that estimator pointed out, but I've yet to see anything to indicate that Aggie is wrong about conservativism being an ideology with little coherent thought behind it.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Tell us how retarded it is to place importance on history and tradition in guiding current actions.

Well... nationalism, religion, social intolerance. That's a good start in showing the moronitude of tradition.

[Fake Boris]

Conservatism is probably an age-old inherited social behaviour... if a society is to survive, stability is required, which means a certain respect for things of the past and unquestioned ideological uniformity.

But we don't live in state of survival anymore, that's why reason has proven its worth in guiding our collective decisions, instead of emotional attachment to antiquated customs that serves a cementing purpose.

[Arrian]

Why must "conservatism" be some sort of well-defined ideology? Why can't someone be conservative with regard to one particular issue, but liberal with respect to another?

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Because there's a bunch of people going around calling themselves conservatives.

[Fake Boris]

Arrian:

I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head (or perhaps willingly?). Conservatism can't even be defined as a coherent and rational ideology because most thesis we associate with conservatism ignore the basic rules of intellectual rigor, and thus do not proceed in a deductive way.

As for your question, it's flawed. Defining conservatism and applying the etiquette to an individual are different things.

[Arrian]

Edit: nevermind.

-Arrian

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

It is rather amusing the compelling need some feel to put people in a box and then the likewise compelling need to scream foul once one inaccurately describes one as a Trotskyite, a Leninist, a Stalinist, a progressive a liberal etc.

[anti - kidicious mode]

Why is it that people on the left feel the need to be close minded moronic stereotypers?

[/anti - kidicious mode]

[Arrian]

I remember a moment in college when I desribed myself as a Republican (heh, I've changed - mainly in that I've learned more about the difference between a party's supposed ideals and its actions) and the professor responded with "So you don't care about human suffering?" Talk about putting someone in a box.

I'm not saying that my professors were generally biased, by the way. Not so.

-Arrian

[OzzyKP]

I think its a misconception that conservatism is simply an "ideology" about preserving the status quo and resisting change. That makes no sense. Especially when the status quo is largely socialist and/or Keynesian.

So with this situation socialists are the conservatives and free market adherants are the liberals.

Plus as has been mentioned "conservative" covers many different ideological movements and theories, all of which I believe have a good amount of thought behind them.

Economic free marketism - lots has been written on this subject to say it is without principles or reason is ludicrious (unless you are making the point that any theory you disagree with is without reason).

Neo-conservatism - plenty has been written about having a hawkish foreign policy.

Religious social conservatism - plenty has been written about morals and the desire to have a moral society. Much more has been written about faith and religion as well.

I generally see those three elements as all making up what we typically see as "conservative" if I've left something you feel free to nitpick, but I think all three of those ideas have plenty of deep thought behind them. Which you may disagree with, but you can't say their theories don't exist.

[Arrian]

From a foreign policy standpoint, there is Isolationism, which tends to be favored by "paleo" conservatives.

-Arrian

[Fake Boris]

Ozzy, I agree that on the economic side, conservative ideologies are well defined. Probably the reason they are associated with conservatism is because they tend to favor the established elites when they are applied, and thus carry the 'law and order' label that is so important to conservatives in general.

If I allowed myself to wet my toe, I'd come up with these criteria for conservatism:

-valuing law and order over contestation and change;
-valuing tradition over academic debate;
-being intolerant about semantic density and uncertainty. The practical corollaries of this proposition are to reject contemporary art and to adopt a retributivist moral system, where 'evil' is to be 'eradicated' to restore an imaginary balance, instead of being addressed through macro-level policies.