Danish embassy invaded

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by germanos
It is therefore that I feel that the issue of insults should allways be taken into account when expressing your right to freedom of speech.

Most of the twelve drawings are pretty idiotic, but one keeps coming back to me - the guy looking nervously back his shoulder while drawing a pic of mohammad.

I couldn't care less if all the worlds newspapers didn't print the other eleven, but they all should print that one.

[germanos]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
State controlled media are a fact of life in that part of the world, as are state controlled mosques, religios organizations, etc

State controlled media are a fact of live in many other parts of the world as well, including many European countries. And from what I gathered in the last thread, there are even state-controlled (or at least influenced) churches in European countries. I'm sure that in Israel there is also room from improvement.

This does not make your conceirn less valid though.

Perhaps a word of encoragement for you:
I know from personal experience that among the populace in muslim/arab states there is a profound awareness of this. People whatch different stations as well, and they are very aware who is controlling the station/newspaper. They take the owner into account when 'absorbing' the message brought to them.
I think even that an argument could be made that the populace in these countries are more aware of the political agenda behind the message presented then people in the west, especially since here in the west we are made to beleive the news is 'neutral' and unprejudiced.
Hell, its often even presented as 'the Truth (TM)'.

[germanos]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Most of the twelve drawings are pretty idiotic, but one keeps coming back to me - the guy looking nervously back his shoulder while drawing a pic of mohammad.

I couldn't care less if all the worlds newspapers didn't print the other eleven, but they all should print that one.

Yeah, that was a good one.
I was struck by the irony of the one with: "relax guys, it's just a drawing"

[Chemical Ollie]

I am proud to eat Danish pork and drink Danish beer!

[Pekka]

Here's the deal. If they boycott Arla, Valio will pick up their share... we get more income, and in return we buy more beer from Denmark. And all is well and balanced again

[germanos]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Quite frankly theres a lot that I find insulting that I suspect you would not. When we step away from free speech absolutes, we start on a dangerous path.

Likewise however, the path of absolute free speech leads to a dangerous path, as this whole incident shows.
Middleground has to be found somewhere, and to me it could be found in the simple rule that rights don't come without duties, and the right of free speech comes with the duty to listen.

[Elok]

Er, sweeping policy changes aside, wouldn't it be more sensible to just let the subject drop rather than turning it into a big idealistic death-and-glory stunt for freedom of speech? Especially since both the death and the glory will not be those of the people calling for them. I'm not sure where exactly this phrase originated (I got it from "Dazed and Confused"), but it's a wonderful description: "Don't let your mouth write checks your butt can't cash."

[OzzyKP]

But the subject isn't going to drop. If its not this, it'll be something else in the future. I don't have any suggestions for how to solve this, but this conflict in the larger sense isn't going away. Its going to be repeated over and over for years to come.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
But the subject isn't going to drop. If its not this, it'll be something else in the future. I don't have any suggestions for how to solve this, but this conflict in the larger sense isn't going away. Its going to be repeated over and over for years to come.

And it's all Bush's fault :P

[Elok]

If by "the subject" you mean conflicts between the West and the Muslim world, yes, that's going to continue until it gets worked out one way or another. This particular squabble is a perfectly minor and inconsequential thing for people to be rioting over, and by all accounts the stupid cartoons aren't even funny. So you wind up with people publishing unfunny cartoons just to spite a violent mob which has shown itself incapable of discerning one Western infidel from another--and touting it as a matter of "principle." So now both sides are insane.

[Odin]

It is BS like this thats makes me so against political correctness. Saying a certain group should be free from criticism so they aren't offended is a bad precedent, it stifles the free exchange of ideas. I may not like what you say, but I'll fight to the death to protect your right to say it.

[Dr Strangelove]

Say, didn't those muslim guys completely deface the Holy Scriptures revered by Jews and Christians? When are they going to apologize for that?

[Pekka]

Yeah seems to me if Denmark apologizes, they should be getting about 300000 apologizes back but I guess they are pending.. forever.

I don't think this issue is about being stubborn. This is about making some sense, you know, let's look at who should be reasonable and who should do what before anything can happen. I don't see Denmark is the one who is being unreasonable, I don't see what else they should do.

I'm afraid of the situation where the extremists actually do get a Dane int heir hands and hold them for hostage in ME country, like they already tried. THat will be one fudged up situation. I mean, worst comes to worst they will kill the hostage, then what? I say, if the leadership of that country X won't come and bend over for it, start up the engines. THat's what I think and I stand behind it 100%.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by germanos
I respectfully disagree that intolarance to one group of people should or could be used to justify intolerance to others

If you believe that is what this is about then you've been asleep for the last few weeks. This has nothing to do with intolerance and is nothing like the routine claims that Jews bath in the blood of muslim children and seek to rule the world through Zog. Instead the cartoons which the Danish paper printed dealt with how religion is used to justify acts of terrorism and murder and with how journalists and artists self censor themselves because they fear being made a target by these butchers.

This is about freedom of expression and the right to expose religious hypocracy where ever it is found even if the hypocrites happen to be muslim. That is a very different matter from the overt racism and complete lies spewed in the Arab press with the full support and sanction of Arab governments.

[Elok]

I am not saying they should be free from criticism. This isn't a matter of "should." This isn't a playground, where we can go running to teacher about the bully and argue over who started it. These aren't controlled conditions. When these people get mad, they kill, and they kill randomly. Can this newspaper do anything about that? No? So they're deliberately provoking violence (they'd have to be sublimely stupid to not expect such a reaction), and then sanctimoniously claiming their right to freedom of the press. Kind of like a right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater. It's one thing to be willing to die for your rights; it's another entirely to expect others to do so and call them martyrs for your cause afterwards.