I'm a nice guy, but I am very hostile.

[Arrian]

High School is hell because it's full of teenagers.
Insecurity + immaturity + puberty... mmm, fun! Middleschool was worse, though, at least for me.

-Arrian

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Asher
I'll ask if people can do something for me, but politeness is not the only protocol for that. "Can you hold the door for me?" is asking somebody to hold the door.

It's also a lexicalized expression in the polite register, nitwit.

[Japher]

I've got about 5 boss'

One of them is nice, he just tells me when I have another task to add to my never ending task list

Another one likes to go out and find the status of some of my on going projects. When he finds a project to which a change in status HAS just occured he goes into action. "Japher, so what is the status on that project."

"Well, I'm waiting for such and such to happem."

"That already happened, lets see if we can't get moving on it. Oh, and you should pay closer attention to your projects."

First off, I have about 10 things going on at one time. If I paid attention to 1 thing at the level he wants me to nothing else would get time (and I would never post at poly). Second, what do you mean "we", not like you're going to do anything about it. Thridly, why didn't you just tell me that the status changed instead of rubbing my nose in your new found knowledge?! Share and share a lit. Finally, how about you sign all the other protocols I have piled on your desk... Needless to say, he's a pain.

Another boss likes to ask straight out what is going on, he is very blunt and almost accusatorial. If you don't know the awnser right off he seems disappointed, but dosn't get in your face about it. He can seem rude, but really, he's like that all the time so you get use to it and it doesn't really bother me.


I prefer the bluntness, not the skirtting the issue type. It's when people try to be nice, that sometimes they sound like arses.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

I don't have subordinates, nor superiors.

Most of the times when your superior says "Can you do this for me?" it is, in fact, NOT a request...you're his employee.
.

sometimes it is, and sometimes it isnt - it depends on tone, facial expression, context, etc. In fact the distinction between Order and request is falsely binary.

Theres in fact a range

Do it or get fired.

Do it or get me pissed enough to lower your evaluation.

Do it or get me slightly pissed, but ill probably forget about it.

Do it cause its what we do around here.

Do it and I will be pleased.

Do it and I will be VERY pleased.

Do it and I will be forever in you debt.

Do it and I will pledge you my firstborn.

And sometimes its not all THAT cut and dried. And its not economical, or necessary, to determine exactly which category a request fits into.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher


I'll ask if people can do something for me, but politeness is not the only protocol for that. "Can you hold the door for me?" is asking somebody to hold the door.

...

yes, with the implication that they can refuse, if they so wish. Which implication is absent from "hold the door" and is made more explicit with "please, can you hold the door" A range of subtle distinctions that convey a different set of relations between speaker and spoken to.

I take it you dont speak Japanese, Asher?

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Asher

I don't have subordinates, nor superiors.

Most of the times when your superior says "Can you do this for me?" it is, in fact, NOT a request...you're his employee.

I'll ask if people can do something for me, but politeness is not the only protocol for that. "Can you hold the door for me?" is asking somebody to hold the door.

You seem to believe that if you're not polite, all you do is command people...

It's all about dignity, as LOTM said. But a lot of bosses aren't going to be that blunt anyway and will request something is done otherwise they are going to court hostility, and the job will be done begrudgingly and in a half-arsed manner, and in the long run, you may end up in losing employees. But you seem to have great difficulty seeing what is plain old instinct to most.

But don't be under the illusion that this is somehow OK if you happen to be more intelligent than average. I have no problem whatsoever with social situations - actually I would consider myself to be somewhat a master of your so-called 'protocol', it's why I can manage people and motivate them and I doubt you could, which is a major career killer too...don't think that somehow just being technically competent will see you to the top because it won't. Your arrogance in your capability is misplaced.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
yes, with the implication that they can refuse, if they so wish. Which implication is absent from "hold the door" and is made more explicit with "please, can you hold the door" A range of subtle distinctions that convey a different set of relations between speaker and spoken to.

I take it you dont speak Japanese, Asher?

By your definition, any time a question is asked it is being polite. I do not think that is the case.

I can ask people things without being polite. For instance, "Can you shower next time before coming?" I can be polite without asking questions.

I find your workplace example obtuse. If your boss asks you to do something, it's generally accepted to take it as something you have to do...not something you can say "Nah, don't feel like it today Boss". In fact, I think your example is the perfect one of when politeness is annoying.

I'd rather be told "I need this report by noon tomorrow, because I'm giving a presentation to a customer." rather than "Could you do this report for noon tomorrow?". I hate ambiguity.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
But don't be under the illusion that this is somehow OK if you happen to be more intelligent than average. I have no problem whatsoever with social situations - actually I would consider myself to be somewhat a master of your so-called 'protocol', it's why I can manage people and motivate them and I doubt you could, which is a major career killer too...don't think that somehow just being technically competent will see you to the top because it won't. Your arrogance in your capability is misplaced.

Yes, Rich, I'm sure you're a master of the social protocol.

How long have you and your SO been together?

How many job interviews did you go through to land your current job?

Is your current job dealing with upset high-profile customers with contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars?

I understand how to be polite, sociable, and generally a tool that I hate when it is required for me. Just because I don't find it necessary on Apolyton, and that I've said I don't like it, doesn't mean I'm not capable of it.

Quite frankly, Rich, I find it hilarious whenever you give any opinion about somebody's personality, because you're a black hole of personality.

[Ecthy]

But then you even find Pekka to be high ranking on the personality scale. Pekka!

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Asher

Yes, Rich, I'm sure you're a master of the social protocol.

How long have you and your SO been together?

How many job interviews did you go through to land your current job?

Is your current job dealing with upset high-profile customers with contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars?

I understand how to be polite, sociable, and generally a tool that I hate when it is required for me. Just because I don't find it necessary on Apolyton, and that I've said I don't like it, doesn't mean I'm not capable of it.

Quite frankly, Rich, I find it hilarious whenever you give any opinion about somebody's personality, because you're a black hole of personality.

Believe it or not, jobs aren't that easy to get. You'll find this out one day.

And really, my love life has no bearing on this. I am surprised you haven't picked on my weight, they seem to be the only two things that you can find.

Black hole of personality? Listen kid, what I am telling you is the truth, take my advice or leave it. Although I doubt there is much you can do about your 'lacking'.

[Provost Harrison]

And don't refer to me on first name terms Asher, never even remotely pretend you are familiar.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Believe it or not, jobs aren't that easy to get. You'll find this out one day.

I haven't had problems yet getting a job. Every time I set out looking I've got one within a few weeks.

And really, my love life has no bearing on this. I am surprised you haven't picked on my weight, they seem to be the only two things that you can find.

Actually, it does. The fact is you're what, 26 years old or something? I don't think you've ever had a girlfriend/boyfriend, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Black hole of personality? Listen kid, what I am telling you is the truth, take my advice or leave it. Although I doubt there is much you can do about your 'lacking'.

Considering I've got friends, family, SO, and no problems finding jobs...I find myself comparing myself to you and wondering why you're the one giving advice?

I didn't comment on your weight because it has no bearing on your lack of personality and sociable skills. The fact that you went forever without a job -- even though you're quite qualified educationally -- tells me a lot about your probable interviewing skills, which is a social skill. The fact that you're perpetually single says a lot as well.

[Provost Harrison]

You've never even had a proper job

And no, I am not answering your questions for the trillionth time. Ask one of my friends about me before jumping to your own conclusion without any data.

But again, time will tell for you.

[Japher]

I love quoting myself;

Asher is the type of person who would break a law and then argue the validity of the law... since he broke it, it can't be a good law afterall

by Asher

I understand how to be polite, sociable, and generally a tool that I hate when it is required for me. Just because I don't find it necessary on Apolyton, and that I've said I don't like it, doesn't mean I'm not capable of it.

---

And your whole argument with PH has nothing to do with what he said. You just turn around and attack him, once again attacking the validity of the statement and not the accusation itself.

Also, you once again prove why your ego is a problem.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
You've never even had a proper job

Yes, I have.

I spent the summer of 2002 working at Voodoo Computers, building, validating, and supporting their highend PC systems.

I spent the summer of 2003 as a freelance developer, and made a lot of money making a program for a small business in Calgary.

I spent 16 months working on a team given the same responsibilities as the other full time employees. I was offered a job upon graduation with IBM as well. I had a frickin' user account on BlueGene/L, ASC Purple, and a bunch of other supercomputers. I was in regular contact with the director of LLNL. I gave a presentation infront of ~300 IBMers about potential ways to improve the design of the compiler, including executives and an IBM Fellow.

I consider the last one, especially, a real job. And they want me back, so what can I say? I dealt with high-profile customers daily and they want me back -- maybe I don't need your advice...

And no, I am not answering your questions for the trillionth time. Ask one of my friends about me before jumping to your own conclusion without any data.

What friends? MikeH and the gang at Counterglow, that constantly mock you by posting the picture of you smashed, in the corner of a pub, looking about 600lbs?