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  • #121
    Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
    Spiffor: yes, #1 creates a better impression, even though the intentions remain unchanged. That's the point of politeness, isn't it?
    Exactly. And neither #1 nor #2 are lies.

    If your point is that #1 (my #1 that is) is morally objectionable in comparison to #2, I fail to understand why. Please explain.
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

    Comment

    • #122
      Originally posted by Asher

      You want me to make a list?

      Off the top of my head...

      Jon Miller
      Flubber
      KrazyHorse
      MtG
      Boris
      Starchild
      dejon
      EmpFab
      SlowwHand
      Datajack
      Alexander's Horse
      Kuciwalker
      Jaguar Warrior
      Colon
      Pekka
      Wittlich
      Ted Striker!

      and more I'm sure.
      And you said you don't like posers? Well, I don't know what to say, really.
      Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

      It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
      The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

      Comment

      • #123
        Originally posted by Last Conformist
        And you said you don't like posers? Well, I don't know what to say, really.
        Are you just sad because you didn't make the list?
        "You are one of the cheerleaders for this wasting of time and the wasting of lives. Do you feel any remorse for having contributed to this "culture of death?" Of course not. Hey, let's all play MORE games, and ignore all the really productive things to do with our lives.
        Let's pretend to be shocked that a gamer might descend into deeper depression, as his gamer "buds," knowing he was killing himself, couldn't figure out how to call 911 themselves for him. That would have involved leaving their computers I guess."

        - Jack Thompson

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        • #124
          nm
          I love being beaten by women - Lorizael

          Comment

          • #125
            Originally posted by Spiffor

            Exactly. And neither #1 nor #2 are lies.

            If your point is that #1 (my #1 that is) is morally objectionable in comparison to #2, I fail to understand why. Please explain.
            I never said it was a lie. It is deceiving however, manipulating the impression you're transmitting to the counterpart.

            I was reacting to UR's statement that lack of politeness means you're feeling superior to your counterpart, and I don't agree to that. It's all about the impression the receiver will have, regardless of your true intentions and feelings.

            The fact that different cultures have different forms of politeness should prove that. If an American insults a Japanese person by using the wrong form of etiquette, the Japanese will feel insulted and been demeaned to, even though the American didn't meant to convey any such.
            Last edited by Colonâ„¢; January 31, 2006, 08:05.
            DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

            Comment

            • #126
              Originally posted by Axxaer


              Are you just sad because you didn't make the list?
              I understand my refined tact, unfailing politeness, and generally sympathic demeanour can give the false impression, but I'm not at 'Poly to be liked. Particularly not by pompous asses like Asher.
              Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

              It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
              The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

              Comment

              • #127
                Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
                I was reacting to UR's statement that lack of politeness means you're feeling superior to your counterpart, and I don't agree to that. It's all about the impression the receiver will have, regardless of your true intentions and feelings.
                Agreed. Which is why you can have polite *******s and rude *******s, just like you can have polite respectful people and rude respectful people.

                Politeness can be manipulative, but isn't necessarily so (IMO, genuine politeness is "conducive to communication" and is the equivalent of typing correct English).

                By the same token, rudeness can be jerkism, but not necessarily so.
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                Comment

                • #128
                  We've evolved to be manipulative for millions of years. It is, in short, how you succeed in social settings. It's part of being human.
                  Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                  It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                  The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

                  Comment

                  • #129
                    Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
                    I never said it was a lie. It is deceiving however, manipulating the impression you're transmitting to the counterpart.
                    I have to react on that statement. No matter what you do, you cannot give a perfectly neutral impression to your counterpart. We all have a part of emotion in our perceptions, and this is why no communication can be entirely devoid of emotional undertones in the eye of the beholder, even a communication that is supposed to be purely informative.

                    Let's take the example of a purely informative message: "Help me changing the bulb". The receiver of the message can have a large variety of interpretations about what is left unsaid.
                    Personally, I'd consider the unsaid part to be: "Hey, peon, I would normally never care about your existence, but I now expect you to help me here and now - Of course, I don't care whether you fancy doing it or not." This particular interpretation, which is very emotionally laden, comes from my own experiences, my own insecurities, whatever you want. They might also be completely unrelated to the bulb-changer's actual feelings. But it's no matter: by trying to be as neutral as possible, by trying not to manipulate my impressions, the bulb-changer still managed to convey an impression, and a negative one at that.
                    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                    Comment

                    • #130
                      I don't believe a sentence in the imperative can ever be "purely informative".
                      Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                      It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                      The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

                      Comment

                      • #131
                        Originally posted by Last Conformist
                        I don't believe a sentence in the imperative can ever be "purely informative".
                        It's the pure informative form. Sentences such as "Could you help me?" or "I need help" leave unsaid the true meaning, i.e. "Help me" (though everybody understands, excepts disingenuous people).
                        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                        Comment

                        • #132
                          Imperative, adj, of Lat imperare "to order". Imperatives are not for the mere conveying of information, they're for telling people what to do.

                          In the case we're discussing, you can't simultaneously be purely informative and explicitly literal, because the speaker's intent is not purely informative.
                          Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                          It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                          The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

                          Comment

                          • #133
                            I read all that, TLC, but I stopped paying attention like halfway through
                            Monkey!!!

                            Comment

                            • #134
                              Originally posted by Japher
                              I read all that, TLC, but I stopped paying attention like halfway through
                              The attention span of modern people.
                              Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                              It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                              The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

                              Comment

                              • #135
                                Monkey!!!

                                Comment

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