Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Palestinian Elections

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Palestinian Elections

    Exit Polls are out:



    From the exit polls it appears Hamas has gained some major seats in the Parliament, but Fatah still finished above them. Though NEITHER got over 50%, making a coalition government necessary.

    [q=CNN]According to one exit poll from Bir Zeit University, Fatah garnered 46.4 percent of the vote and Hamas won 39.8 percent. That translates into 63 seats for Fatah and 58 for Hamas, according to the exit poll.[/q]

    [q=CNN]Election officials estimated about 77.7 percent of the eligible 1.3 million voters turned out to cast their ballots at more than 1,000 polling stations. [/q]

    Though a cautionary tale:

    [q=CNN]Election adviser Jarrett Blanc was pleased with the way the election was carried out, saying the Central Election Commission "met or exceeded" all the standards that were laid out for the vote.

    He cautioned against placing too much emphasis on the exit polls because officials are using a complicated formula that has not been well tested around the globe.

    "I would really urge people who are interested in the results to wait for the official results, which will hopefully come out tomorrow," he said.[/q]
    (ie, formula to make Hamas lose big and Fatah win big )

    Interesting times.

    Though the most hypocritcal thing:

    [q=CNN]The results of the election were being closely monitored by the United States and European Union, both of which have threatened to cut aid if Hamas becomes part of the government.

    "We view Hamas as a terrorist organization. We don't deal with Hamas. And under the current circumstances, I don't see that changing," U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. White House spokesman Scott McClellan was more cautious: "We'll see what the election results are. I'm not going to play a what-if scenario here."[/q]

    So... you push for democratic elections, but will cut off aid if the 'wrong people' win? What kind of message does that give? Better off to stick with dictatorship strongmen in that case!!
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

  • #2
    1) Exit polls are stupid, throw rocks at them.

    2) Re: Hamas. It would seem like the best thing would be for this organization to morph into a real political party that must actually take part in governing, instead of just blowing things up when they don't get their way. Thus, our government's stance is just dumb, IMO.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thus, our government's stance is just dumb, IMO.


      This administration hasn't done anything right since...
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

      Comment


      • #4
        This administration hasn't done anything right since
        Afganistan (late '01/early '02).

        -Arrian
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

        Comment


        • #5
          No, we ****ed that up too. The Taliban are gaining power because we left before the country was sufficiently pacified.

          Anyway, there is talk of a grand coalition with Fateh members in high positions of government and Hamas in lower level positions. I wonder what the response would be to that (seeing as how Europe and the US likes Abu Mazan so far).
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

          Comment


          • #6
            No, we ****ed that up too. The Taliban are gaining power because we left before the country was sufficiently pacified.
            Not until we started gearing up for Iraq. In the timeframe I gave, Afganistan/Pakistan was the primary focus (rightly so!).

            ...

            Fatah/Hamas... it seems to me that the Fatah guys could be the foreign policy/diplo guys and Hamas could be the local leaders... which seems to be the way things actually are now. That might look like Fatah on top, Hamas in lower-level spots, but in reality it might be more like Hamas wields the actual power and Fatah just sells them to the world.

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • #7
              Since Hamas and many of the street thugs of Fatah are the same quality of manure, I personally don't really care.

              I do find it interesting what will happen if Hamas wins bigger. Interesting wars ahead....
              urgh.NSFW

              Comment


              • #8
                it does seem odd how we'd support one group of terrorists that hate us and want to kill us vs another group of terrorists that hate us and want to kill us.

                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                No, we ****ed that up too. The Taliban are gaining power because we left before the country was sufficiently pacified.
                that has more to do with the portion of the pashtun tribal area in pakistan, and our inability to conduct operations there than any other factor.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Imran, well you have to spesify this situation more than 'wrong people'.

                  For example, if AQ said it will put down guns and go for politics, peacefully, and then in 2007 there will be election time in Iraq (I mean hypothetically), and they win big, with themes straight from Taliban and what not. You support the democratic elections, but if you expect US and EU to keep supporting that government, you got to be kidding if you say it's undemocratic or not pragmatic enough.
                  In da butt.
                  "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                  THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                  "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Palestinian Elections

                    [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                    So... you push for democratic elections, but will cut off aid if the 'wrong people' win? What kind of message does that give? Better off to stick with dictatorship strongmen in that case!!
                    not at all. Youre free to vote for whomever you please. We, however, are free to cut off aid if you elect a party that is opposed to the peace process. Its OUR money, thank you very much, and our refusal to give to to certain governments is entirely our right.

                    Now IF Hamas chooses to make the changes that Fatah made in 1992 at Oslo, to accept the existence of Israel and a two state solution, and to participate in the peace process, and to at least declare that it will no longer use terrorist methods, thats one thing. But if they continue to deny israels right to exist, and to oppose the Oslo accords, as they have thus far, AND if they have a dominant role in the governance of the PA, then there can be no peace process. And certainly no aid. (its also possible that they will have a subordinate role in a PA govt, which introduces other possibilities)
                    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Exactly what LOTM said.
                      In da butt.
                      "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                      THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                      "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Arrian
                        1) Exit polls are stupid, throw rocks at them.

                        2) Re: Hamas. It would seem like the best thing would be for this organization to morph into a real political party that must actually take part in governing, instead of just blowing things up when they don't get their way. Thus, our government's stance is just dumb, IMO.

                        -Arrian
                        Our govt has encouraged hamas to do exactly what youve said. However they have not. While we should judge them by their actions, its just possible that their unwillingness to morph as you have said has to do with their own beleifs and outlook, and is not a product of US govt policy.
                        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Now IF Hamas chooses to make the changes that Fatah made in 1992 at Oslo, to accept the existence of Israel and a two state solution, and to participate in the peace process, and to at least declare that it will no longer use terrorist methods, thats one thing.


                          Ooooh, "declare that it will no longer use terrorists methods". I can guarantee you, that this amounts to jack, just as in the case of Fatah - though for different reasons.
                          urgh.NSFW

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Whoha
                            it does seem odd how we'd support one group of terrorists that hate us and want to kill us vs another group of terrorists that hate us and want to kill us.

                            .
                            Pace, Az, Fatah as a movement has accepted Israels right to exist, and has supported the revision of the PLO charter to say so. While the winking support that Arafat gave to Hamas was a concern, and the rise of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and other Fatah linked terror groups is another, Fatah under Mazen seems to have genuinely opposed terror, however ineffectively. Some elements in Fatah (like Dahlan) look like they MIGHT be more effective than Mazen. Unfortunately this election has come only a relatively short time after the death of Arafat and the withdrawl from Gaza, at a time when Fatah itself was undergoing its own internal struggle.

                            Now Hamas, by contrast is still dedicated to the destruction of israel. And has promised only a ceasefire in its terror campaign, not a renunciation of terror.
                            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Az

                              Now IF Hamas chooses to make the changes that Fatah made in 1992 at Oslo, to accept the existence of Israel and a two state solution, and to participate in the peace process, and to at least declare that it will no longer use terrorist methods, thats one thing.


                              Ooooh, "declare that it will no longer use terrorists methods". I can guarantee you, that this amounts to jack, just as in the case of Fatah - though for different reasons.
                              At least - thats the minimum. I share with you the belief that thats far from enough, and that its only worthwhile if followed up by pressure for actions. However I think the notion that theres no real difference between Fatah and Hamas is absurd.
                              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X