Palestinian Elections

[Imran Siddiqui]

Re: Re: Palestinian Elections

Originally posted by lord of the mark not at all. Youre free to vote for whomever you please. We, however, are free to cut off aid if you elect a party that is opposed to the peace process. Its OUR money, thank you very much, and our refusal to give to to certain governments is entirely our right.

Please. It's us being utter *******s. We are proding them to democracy, telling them to do democracy, knowing that it could lead to an adverse result (hopefully knowingly... with this administration you never know). However, if the US didn't push so hard for democracy, the 'good guys' (relatively) would continue to stay in power and get the favor of the US.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and we should realize that.

[Traianvs]

Re: Re: Palestinian Elections

Originally posted by lord of the mark


not at all. Youre free to vote for whomever you please. We, however, are free to cut off aid if you elect a party that is opposed to the peace process. Its OUR money, thank you very much, and our refusal to give to to certain governments is entirely our right.

Now IF Hamas chooses to make the changes that Fatah made in 1992 at Oslo, to accept the existence of Israel and a two state solution, and to participate in the peace process, and to at least declare that it will no longer use terrorist methods, thats one thing. But if they continue to deny israels right to exist, and to oppose the Oslo accords, as they have thus far, AND if they have a dominant role in the governance of the PA, then there can be no peace process. And certainly no aid. (its also possible that they will have a subordinate role in a PA govt, which introduces other possibilities)

And you deny the Palestinians their right of existence, their return of citizens in surrounding Arab countries etc...

That attitude won't get you anywhere lotm

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Arrian
1) Exit polls are stupid, throw rocks at them.

2) Re: Hamas. It would seem like the best thing would be for this organization to morph into a real political party that must actually take part in governing, instead of just blowing things up when they don't get their way. Thus, our government's stance is just dumb, IMO.

-Arrian

QFT. Hamas going into politics instead of using bombs would be a breakthrough in the peace process

[Drake Tungsten]

lotm

Imran

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Traianvs
QFT. Hamas going into politics instead of using bombs would be a breakthrough in the peace process

Yep, and this "we'll cut off aid if Hamas comes to power" just undermines that whole gain.

[Ramo]

The problem here is that Fatah is really corrupt whereas Hamas is relatively clean. You see a similar trend in Lebanon, with Hezbollah gaining power since they're relatively clean. Political power had moderated Hezb somewhat (though that has a lot to do with the contemporaneous Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon), so perhaps the same could happen with Hamas.

[joncha]

And in Canada, where the relatively clean Conservatives have taken over for the really corrupt Liberals. It remains to be seen whether political power will moderate the Tories, though.

[Edan]

Re: Palestinian Elections

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So... you push for democratic elections, but will cut off aid if the 'wrong people' win? What kind of message does that give?

That we use our financial aid as leverage against the use of terrorism? If they don't want any interference like that, they could always refuse our aid.

[GePap]

If the US and EU cut aid, what happens?

Do Palestinians, thrown into further poverty, decide to follow the money and do as the west wants?

Or do they turn more and more to Islamic charities, the only organizations capable of meeting their social needs given the collapse in society?

Yeah, cutting the Palestinian government from aid, while the Palestinian economy continues in a stranglehold will really weaken the Islamists....

Oh, wait. NO. It will make them even stronger, since they will be the ones holding society up form total collapse, and get their funding from deep pockets.

Yup, its our money, of course. One of course would hope we would follow an intelligent policy with it...but of course, we won't, it seems.

[MrFun]

Re: Re: Palestinian Elections

Originally posted by lord of the mark


not at all. Youre free to vote for whomever you please. We, however, are free to cut off aid if you elect a party that is opposed to the peace process. Its OUR money, thank you very much, and our refusal to give to to certain governments is entirely our right.

Now IF Hamas chooses to make the changes that Fatah made in 1992 at Oslo, to accept the existence of Israel and a two state solution, and to participate in the peace process, and to at least declare that it will no longer use terrorist methods, thats one thing. But if they continue to deny israels right to exist, and to oppose the Oslo accords, as they have thus far, AND if they have a dominant role in the governance of the PA, then there can be no peace process. And certainly no aid. (its also possible that they will have a subordinate role in a PA govt, which introduces other possibilities)

great post

[Az]

Pace, Az, Fatah as a movement has accepted Israels right to exist, and has supported the revision of the PLO charter to say so. While the winking support that Arafat gave to Hamas was a concern, and the rise of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and other Fatah linked terror groups is another, Fatah under Mazen seems to have genuinely opposed terror, however ineffectively. Some elements in Fatah (like Dahlan) look like they MIGHT be more effective than Mazen. Unfortunately this election has come only a relatively short time after the death of Arafat and the withdrawl from Gaza, at a time when Fatah itself was undergoing its own internal struggle.

Al-Aqsa martyrs isn't a fatah linked group. it is the fatah's younger generation. Al Aqsa people run on fatah's election lists, etc.

in any case, it seems that Hamas won. And they of course won't disband their "military"wing.

[Agathon]

in any case, it seems that Hamas won. And they of course won't disband their "military"wing.

Hypocrisy knows no bounds.....

[Az]

Hey, I can also play this game!

"A meaningless sentence designed to be witty"

[KrazyHorse]

Update: Hamas won a majority, taking at least 70 out of 132 seats, according to sources in both Fatah and Hamas

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/01/26/mideast-hamas-elxn.html

[Az]

yep. an absolute majority.