Monarchy or Republic?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Political offices should be elected, sure, but is the head of state of GB and the Commonwealth a political office? Should it be?

Is either PH or Laz fond of the American system of electing judges?

In some states judges are appointed (federal judges area ALL appointed)

Ive seen arguments over here that appointed judges are just as politicized as elected ones. There advantages to both approaches.

But I have yet to hear an argument for hereditary judges. Do any of your countries have such things? (UK House of Lords sitting as a court aside)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BlackCat


or for that matter police chiefs.

I live near Alexandria, VA, where they elect the Sheriff. Ive lived in NY and Chicago, where police chiefs were appointed. I cant say that the Police in those cities were less corrupt, or less politicized, than down here.

[SlowwHand]

A monarchy is more outdated than the concept of communism being a workable plan.

I think that about says it all.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by notyoueither
And prosecutors.

and yet again, its state prosecutors who are elected, while Federal prosecutors are appointed. And the Federal ones are often just as political.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I will withdraw one accusation I made above. On checking, I found out the seabeds are gaining revenue for the Crown Estate, not the Royal Family.

However I'll add that as well as getting exemption from corporation tax, the Royal Duchies get exemption from Capital Gains tax too.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

For those of you talking about your good experiences with non-elected officials- do you think accountability is a good thing?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Sounds like the British monarchs excel in the "bastard" department over their european counterparts.

the contrast between the Brits and the "light monarchies" on the continent has been pointed out long ago. Its been countered that the British monarchy is bearer of more serious stuff, more symbolism, more history, more divine aura, whatever, than the simpler Scandinavians and Dutch.

I could have seen that 30 years ago. Its harder now.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
For those of you talking about your good experiences with non-elected officials- do you think accountability is a good thing?

Our supreme court has far, far more impact on our daily lives and the life of our Dominion than the monarch and her representatives have had for a long, long time.

The supreme court is 'unaccountable' by your reckoning, since they are not elected.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

and yet again, its state prosecutors who are elected, while Federal prosecutors are appointed. And the Federal ones are often just as political.

As political as people who would be seeking election and re-election? I didn't think you were that naive.

It's moot though, since Laz and PH seem to be disinclined to say anything about their opinions on politicising even some of these positions.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
For those of you talking about your good experiences with non-elected officials- do you think accountability is a good thing?

Sure. Why don't you tell about the grandness of elected officials ? That is people not elected because of their capabilities but because they have enough money to campaign.

Somehow I have a tendency to distrust a legal system that are based upon the money are able to collect. (ok, say that for any part of the ruling body, including the president)

[C0ckney]

the link i provided gives an accurate description of the monies that the monarchy receives directly from the taxpayer, and pays in tax. the monarch and her heirs have other sources of income, such as the duchy of lancaster, as you point out. the duchy does exactly what it was created to do, provide an income for the monarchy, the duchy of cornwall provides such an income for the prince of wales. the 'cost' is the fact they don't pay certain taxes, but then they never have in 700 odd years of existence, so it's not as if anything has been taken from us.

the monarchy does a job, which needs to be done, and which like everything in government, needs to be paid for, it's just that instead of being paid for directly from taxes, they have their own historical system of funding.

like i said before though this 'bean counting' is an aside, because this debate is about whether the want the monarchy or not.

i'm still waiting for some real arguments for change and some real ideas of what could replace the monarchy. i get the feeling i'm going to be waiting a long time :/

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by notyoueither


As political as people who would be seeking election and re-election? I didn't think you were that naive.

Federal prosecutors are selected by the Presidents administration, by custom with input from the US Senators of the Presidents party (if the state in question has a US Senator from the Presidents party). In addition to loyalty to that partys agenda, they are often ambitious for higher office themselves. If you think they are not capable of being just as political as ones seeking reelection, than you are naive.

BTW, Rudy Giuliani, who went on to become Mayor of New York, and is now whispered about as a possible Presidential candidate, was a Federal prosecutor. If you think that his HIGHLY publicized prosecutions were NOT political, than you are naive.

[lord of the mark]

We also have a temporary office of Special Prosecutor, who are appointed by a bi partisan board to investigate malfeasance in the executive branch. They have proven to be extraordinarily political - perhaps you dont remember, but does the name kenneth starr mean anything to you?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by notyoueither

It's moot though, since Laz and PH seem to be disinclined to say anything about their opinions on politicising even some of these positions.

Take it to a thread that isn't about whether monarchy is justified, and I just might feel inclined to comment.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by C0ckney
like i said before though this 'bean counting' is an aside, because this debate is about whether the want the monarchy or not.

And, from the looks of it, most don't. QED.