8th grader with pellet gun shot and killed by SWAT team in School.

[Thorn]

YOu litllel ae jraliejioej glastlwr r lilitlr UT$*O$ *()T$T$ *)T$TT$H$))H Damnit I'm smashing my keyboard to bits.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by ajbera


Didn't this occur in Black Hawk Down? I seem to recall a wounded soldier being operated on, where another soldier was holding the femoral artery out for the medic to tie it off (or whatever), but it slips from his grasp and snaps back under/into the pelvis, and they can't get a hold of it again so the wounded man dies. Same or similar thing?

OT: Tragedy, but cops aren't to blame. Maybe the kid made a series of bad decisions, but they were his decisions, and some mistakes you just don't walk away from.

Yes. The same situation occurred near where I live a few years ago. There was a shoot out between a man and the polkice. The man was shot in the leg. He was taken to the local hospital, but still died because the ER wasn't able to control the bleeding and he didn't reach the OR in time.

[Thorn]

I think any of you that think this kid should have died and got his just deserts ought to be kidnapped by terrorists.... then maybe you'll understand how precious life is. God some of you make me furious.

[Gamecube64]

Originally posted by Thorn
I think any of you that think this kid should have died and got his just deserts ought to be kidnapped by terrorists.... then maybe you'll understand how precious life is. God some of you make me furious.

Why do the vigilante protectors of life always wish the rest of us death?

How is bringing a gun to school not worse than the cops decision to shoot a kid who was brandishing a gun at him? The kid was screwed the second he decided to bring the gun.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Thorn
I think any of you that think this kid should have died and got his just deserts ought to be kidnapped by terrorists.... then maybe you'll understand how precious life is. God some of you make me furious.

Life is precious. No one has said anything contrary to that. In fact, everyone has said its a sad situation.

Life is precious, especially when its your own. The deputy saw him point a gun at him. It turned into a kill or be killed situation. 99% of people would shoot the kid, and I would bet that you would be in that 99%.

Did the kid get what he deserved? Yes. He pointed a gun at a heavily armed deputy in a dangerous and tense situation. If the kid didn't want to die, he should be our first candidate for the Darwin award.

[MOBIUS]

Talking of these kinds of situations, did anyone get to the bottom of the recent shooting by sky marshalls in Miami?

[Berzerker]

Yes...

Im so confused Berzerker, please Clarify what you mean

Your make so much sense, please help me help you understand you Berzerker

You felt the need to clarify that a shot to the leg can cause serious damage, no one needed that explained.

So all cops from here forth shoot someone in the

A) leg soo they might crawl and still shoot?

We were talking about a guy with a knife surrounded by ~20 cops, not a guy with a gun facing off with 1 cop.

D) Ask all to Take a Time out and go call Berzerker, much like a review on the Football Play in Question

You mean people shouldn't question a tactic that obviously failed?
And thx...

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Thats just a possibility, this still sounds like suicide via cop. You gotta be a little nuts to be pointing a gun at cops so I dont think he was being rational and his behavior prior to their arrival was whacky. IF I had ever brought a gun to school I would have handed it over to the teacher when discovered, not run around for an hour scaring the hell out of people.

We don't know he pointed a gun at the cop. The cop who shot him says he did. The cop who shot him would have a strong incentive to lie, if he chose to "take him out".

A lot of SWAT team guys are frustrated cowboys. My regular cop friends think they are stupid, macho idiots. They wait for years sometimes for a chance to use their training.

[Apocalypse]

If the cop was color blind, they would know it was a fake. Unfortunantly people think color blindness can only be a weakness though.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
It's not "shoot to kill". It's "shoot to disable". Hitting somebody in a limb is no guarantee that they will stop, nor is it easy to hit somebody in a limb when they are moving.

a) They aim for center-mass

b) If the guy is merely against the wall brandishing a knife they will not shoot him. They might taser or pepper spray him, but until he makes a threatening move toward an officer or civilian with his knife he will not be shot.

Unfortunately sometimes they shoot anyway. There is an extremely wide range of quality in law enforcement officials in the U.S., and I suspect most places. Many federal and state agencies are excellent, and some big city police departments are rated very highly as well, but there is a lot of variance in small local law enforcement agencies. I've seen the footage of an incident in a nearby town where an extremely intoxicated man armed with a knife was completely blown away by the police despite the fact that he was so falling down drunk that I doubt he could have harmed anyone. I know I could have taken him down with very little risk. He obviously wasn't familiar with the knife as a weapon. He stumbled one step too far and was shot over 10 times by four officers. He was ventilated and dead before he hit the ground.

While I agree with the de facto shoot to kill policies currently in place in the U.S., I disagree with a lot of the decisions to shoot in the first place. We need cops with better training in hand to hand fighting and non-lethal weapons. A textbook example of how to take down a knife armed man was provided by the U.S. Secret Service on the White House lawn during the Carter administration. The man was first confronted (iirc) by two agents armed with simple staffs who kept him at bay. A third man snuck in from behind the trespasser and as the trespasser detected him and swung the knife the unarmed agent (who obviously knew his martial arts) used his momentum to shoulder throw him and immediately disarm him. No one dead, no one hurt.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll

Clint Eastwood or John Wayne material for sure

That sounds more like the Lone Ranger actually. And I know your old enough to have seen some of those!

[Dis]

after Columbine, you have to expect this. They aren't going to take any chances.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
If the cop was color blind, they would know it was a fake. Unfortunantly people think color blindness can only be a weakness though.

While still others labor under a misconception of being color blind.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sikander


Unfortunately sometimes they shoot anyway. There is an extremely wide range of quality in law enforcement officials in the U.S., and I suspect most places. Many federal and state agencies are excellent, and some big city police departments are rated very highly as well, but there is a lot of variance in small local law enforcement agencies. I've seen the footage of an incident in a nearby town where an extremely intoxicated man armed with a knife was completely blown away by the police despite the fact that he was so falling down drunk that I doubt he could have harmed anyone. I know I could have taken him down with very little risk. He obviously wasn't familiar with the knife as a weapon. He stumbled one step too far and was shot over 10 times by four officers. He was ventilated and dead before he hit the ground.

And this is an example of bad policing. I agree that there's a lot of it out there, but people here are arguing for ridiculous restrictions on the use of force.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
If the cop was color blind, they would know it was a fake. Unfortunantly people think color blindness can only be a weakness though.

unfortunately for the kid, the officer had fine eye sight.