8th grader with pellet gun shot and killed by SWAT team in School.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Thorn
Yeah, well you think about it, really hard, do you really want to hand it over to police, I don't think he was suicidal to begin with but the prospects of punishment by our good ol' puritan society, had him scared ****less, I would have done the same thing in the situation. **** like having 5 felonies and going to prison for like the rest of your life. Possibly even being considered a terrorist under homeland security procedures. Nah, I'd rather die.

exactly why Police Officers are trained to bring closure to a volitaile situation when deemed necessary based on the actions of the perpetrator(s)

Some people will not be taken, maybe for the reason outlined above or because they just killed somone before being in this situation or because they are mentally unstable or under the influence of a narcotic, an alcohol or some other mind altering substance

The Police can only go with what they see and know of

A rationale person doesnt bring a pellet gun to defend themselves with

Oh and yes I was abused in school for yearsd, was beaten to within an inch of my life and had my ribs broken up and held down and teeth kicked out when I was thirteen

I was p!$$ed on, kicked on, emotionally and physically abused for several; years, almsot dailey humiliated and beaten in a small hick town in Maine.

I at times was not rationale because of what I was going through

So because of the abuse, if I has a weapon and aimed it toward a cop, would this give me any special priveleges due to abuse?

The bullet that could be potentially fired cannot be recalled once it leave the weapon

Very sad indeed

[Donegeal]

Hey Bozo... Although the article doesn't say it, the SWAT team IS negotiating with him. They are telling him to drop the weapon and to lay on the floor. He didn't. He instead pointed it at a deputy. The deputy, not wanting to be shot, shot him.

The fact that the family said "it might not be a real gun" is irrelavent. Look at it from the deputies point of view:

Teenager pulls gun on class. Locks one student in a closet. Runs away. You are told that the gun might not be real. You xhase him down and tell him to drop the weapon and lay on the ground. Instead of doing what he is told, he points it at you. The cop hesitates, thinking "it might not be real". Bang. I guess it was real. Deap cop. That is just stupid.

He was going to defend himself from a bully!!! WTF is wrong with the police!!!

The reason why he brought it is irrelevant. This would be like saying "He only brought it to show a friend." So what. He brought it.

Now I'm not saying this isn't a sad situation, but to fault the police at all in this case is ridiculous.

[Berzerker]

b) Your 3 examples are all hearsay, filtered through god knows how many sources.

Just going on what the cops and witnesses say, if that aint good enough then why should we ever believe anyone - including the cops? Did you not make a judgement about this situation? Was that based on hearsay which you apparently reject?

Official police procedures are not to shoot a man standing against a wall and brandishing a knife (so long as he is not within threatening range of others). Did he make a move toward an officer? Did an officer **** up and fire too soon? Who knows. I'm certainly not going to figure it out by reading the news according to Berzerker.

We're using the same sources. The guy in NO allegedly did make a move once he was cornered, so why wasnt he shot in the leg before any cops got close enough for a knife attack? I'd say shooting him in the leg was the safest thing to do, not move in on him so his weapon can be used and not pumping him full of bullets increasing the odds a stray will hit someone.

[Grandpa Troll]

@ Donegeal

[BlackCat]

@Berz : Ohohooo, this thread reminds me that I promised a translation of training/regulatives concerning disabling people for danish police back in december - I'll do it as fast as I can.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Berzerker
We're using the same sources. The guy in NO allegedly did make a move once he was cornered, so why wasnt he shot in the leg before any cops got close enough for a knife attack? I'd say shooting him in the leg was the safest thing to do, not move in on him so his weapon can be used and not pumping him full of bullets increasing the odds a stray will hit someone.

Just so you know, the "safe" distance for a knife is 21 feet. Now I would guess that the police were outside this "safe" range (as that would be standard proceedure). 21 feet might not sound like alot, but when your trying to hit a moving target (the NO guys appearently DID make a move) from that range, can you be sure to make a hit? Are you sure that even if you did that the guy would stop his attack? The answer to both of these is no. Deadly force could be used (although I would perfer a less than leathal TAZER, but the max range of a TAZER is 21 feet and they become exponetially more inaccuate the further the target).

[Thorn]

Yeah why didn't they taser that damn kid!? Only in America do the police shoot to kill every time.

[Berzerker]

Hey Bozo... Although the article doesn't say it, the SWAT team IS negotiating with him. They are telling him to drop the weapon and to lay on the floor. He didn't. He instead pointed it at a deputy. The deputy, not wanting to be shot, shot him.

Thanks for that, I had no idea the kid pointed the gun at a deputy. [/Bozo] I read it and you miss my critique, if the kid was cornered in a bathroom, why are the cops in the bathroom too? Thats the perfect time to keep the situation stable until family and friends arrive and to re-assess the threat.

The fact that the family said "it might not be a real gun" is irrelavent. Look at it from the deputies point of view:

Teenager pulls gun on class.

He didn't pull the gun, another student grabbed it from him. At that point he's busted, so an already irrational kid panics.

Locks one student in a closet.

The student who tried to grab his gun

Runs away.

And didnt fire a shot the whole time, amazing!

You are told that the gun might not be real. You xhase him down and tell him to drop the weapon and lay on the ground. Instead of doing what he is told, he points it at you. The cop hesitates, thinking "it might not be real". Bang. I guess it was real. Deap cop. That is just stupid.

You chase him into a bathroom and go in before help arrives? I might open the door and talk to the kid, but why press the situation at that point? And in this case, it was just a pellet gun so "bang, a 15-year old kid is dead"

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Thorn
Yeah why didn't they taser that damn kid!?

Because a man with a gun being tasered can quite likely get off a round or two at his assailant

Only in America do the police shoot to kill every time.

Liar. This has nothing to do with America. If I walked up to a cop in Montreal with a pellet gun disguised to look like a 9 mil then I would fully expect to get shot in the chest.

[Thorn]

Canada doesn't count, you're like a liberal clone of us.

[KrazyHorse]

Fine. Do it in France then. The gendarme will shoot you in a heartbeat.

[Thorn]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Fine. Do it in France then. The gendarme will shoot you in a heartbeat.

Only in the back as they run away.

[EPW]

The kid is still alive...

[Thorn]

Originally posted by EPW
The kid is still alive...

On a technicality, unless he grows new organs (cause they are harvesting his old ones) and his brain reanimates, I doubt he'll stay that way for very long.

[Berzerker]

The reason why he brought it is irrelevant. This would be like saying "He only brought it to show a friend." So what. He brought it.

It is relevant, it informs the cops about his state of mind. Even robo-cop tried to make threat assessments...

Now I'm not saying this isn't a sad situation, but to fault the police at all in this case is ridiculous.

If a few cops or one advanced on him in the bathroom, that should be scrutinised. Why didn't they wait for the parents who were on the way?

Just so you know, the "safe" distance for a knife is 21 feet. Now I would guess that the police were outside this "safe" range (as that would be standard proceedure). 21 feet might not sound like alot, but when your trying to hit a moving target (the NO guys appearently DID make a move) from that range, can you be sure to make a hit? Are you sure that even if you did that the guy would stop his attack? The answer to both of these is no. Deadly force could be used (although I would perfer a less than leathal TAZER, but the max range of a TAZER is 21 feet and they become exponetially more inaccuate the further the target).

Did you see the video? The cops had ample opportunity to put a slug in his thigh. Instead, they cornered him against a wall, apparently closed in and started firing when he made a "move".