Are people who believe in the Death Penalty by definition Evil?

[Flubber]

On the original question NO.


As for the rest, one can debate the death penalty forever with no real resolution.

[Sava]

As for the death penalty... the only argument I will accept from people is that they oppose it on moral grounds... that is the only argument against it that is legitimate.

everything else... DP being racist, state not having a right to kill people, people who support DP being evil... all of that is bull****...

and the first one I completely proved to be false... and quite hilariously pwned Ted Striker if I do say so myself...

if you disagree with the DP, that's fine... I can respect that... you think killing people is bad... that's a good thing...

however, when it comes to killing BAD PEOPLE, this is a basic survival trait... there is a reason humans have a basic desire for justice. It's so that bad people don't continue to victimize society... prey on the weak... and there is nothing wrong with that desire for justice... to see the guilty punished. The people that support the DP aren't evil... they are functioning properly.

Honestly though... I don't understand the mentality of anti-DP people. What possible reason would there to be for keeping murderers locked up for their natural lives?

And still... nobody can give me an answer. They just respond with the standard talking points.

[Japher]

I agree with Sava...

/me takes one step to the left to avoid the lightning

[Bill3000]

Killing ignoring the intent of the kill is not evil - it is the intent that matters.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Sava
As for the death penalty... the only argument I will accept from people is that they oppose it on moral grounds... that is the only argument against it that is legitimate.

Psssst. Sava. Quickly nip back and edit that to include "Plus the argument that we get it wrong too often, of course". Happy to help.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by MOBIUS

quote:
I didn't claim that lefties are more bloodthirsty than others

quote:
but that a larger number of them let their true character shine through when political opponents are stricken with serious illness or death.

more = larger number?

My reading comprehension skills seem fine so far...

Actually they are still quite suspect. His comments are aimed at alleged lefties that show higher propensity or degrees of hypocritical behavior but says nothing on the matter at hand whether there are more lefties of a bloodthirsty nature than righties.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: Are people who believe in the Death Penalty by definition Evil?

Originally posted by MOBIUS
After all, are you not yourself murdering the murderer? What gives you that right, especially if murder itself is such a heinous crime?

Surely isn't it better punishment to incarcerate someone for life so that they can live with their crimes for the rest of their lives?

You're assuming they give a **** about their crimes. Like the two recent *******s in Virginia who slit the throat of a two year old girl, along with her parents, for a friggin' robbery. They also killed four more people, for no reason. Damn, just go rob a house where nobody's home, or leave the people alone. What the hell?

Why on earth should any society subsidize and support scum like that? They get their TVs and radios, time in the yard, adapt to prison life, and have a nice, comfortable, tolerable "three hots and a cot" while everything their victims ever could have been and done either rots in the ground or goes up in ashes.

**** 'em, give me a rope and a stout tree and I'd do the job myself. As Judge Roy Bean said, "every man's entitled to a fair trial and a fair hanging."

Winston's accusation on another thread that, to paraphrase him, lefties are more bloodthirsty than rightists just doesn't ring true to me...

Surely it is the lefties that are generally against the death penalty and therefore less bloodthirsty, than the rightists that seem overwhelmingly in favour of the DP.

Indeed, by this definition doesn't the right want to kill all its enemies it gets its hands on?

I guess that Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and others of their ilk are now "righties?"

And lefties are often quite willing to kill passively, by doing nothing of substance in the face of genocide (Rwanda, Darfur, and we could throw in a whole bunch more)

[Sava]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Psssst. Sava. Quickly nip back and edit that to include "Plus the argument that we get it wrong too often, of course". Happy to help.

that's another argument that is obsolete...

with the development of DNA evidence, you really aren't seeing innocent people being put behind bars... although everyone in prison claims they're innocent

and abolishing the death penalty would have no bearing on whether or not innocent people would be convicted or not... and plus, in America, there are lengthy appeals processes that delay executions for decades... which also gets into the argument that anti-DP use: "The DP is more expensive than life in prison"...

Most of the problems with the DP could be solved with greater checks and balances and reform to the justice system... WHICH ARE NEEDED ANYWAYS.

So again... the only legitimate argument the anti-DP people have is the moral one.

And that brings me to another point... less than 100 people a year are executed in the US. If anti-DP people were so concerned with saving lives, they would find another cause which would perhaps save more lives... INNOCENT LIVES even...

Which begs the question... why do anti-DP people care so much about murderers? Why are they wasting their energy trying to abolish the death penalty in the name of "saving lives" when so few people are executed?

Wouldn't they be more helpful saving more lives... and frankly... saving lives of people that aren't worthless pieces of human scum?

And I also find it hilarious that many of the same people that are anti-DP are the same people that wish death to Bush and company. How does that work? At least I'm consistent.

(in wishing death to Bush and co. and being pro-DP)

[SlowwHand]

Re: Are people who believe in the Death Penalty by definition Evil?

Originally posted by MOBIUS
After all, are you not yourself murdering the murderer? What gives you that right, especially if murder itself is such a heinous crime?

Surely isn't it better punishment to incarcerate someone for life so that they can live with their crimes for the rest of their lives?

Winston's accusation on another thread that, to paraphrase him, lefties are more bloodthirsty than rightists just doesn't ring true to me...

Surely it is the lefties that are generally against the death penalty and therefore less bloodthirsty, than the rightists that seem overwhelmingly in favour of the DP.

Indeed, by this definition doesn't the right want to kill all its enemies it gets its hands on?

It is not murder. It's a penalty option presented for use against murderers.

Keep hashing it out. You don't like it, vote against it.

[child of Thor]

Are people who believe in the Death Penalty by definition Evil?

I'd say no. The death penalty is necesary in a large society. As some kind of super monkey, homo-sapian still hasn't fully adapted to being a large herd animal. So we need rules in our society to stop us from destroying ourselves. Thats all the Death Penalty is - rules that should not be broken(for the good of many) or you will die(the cost to the individual breaking those rules).

What i'm not so hot on is the way in hindsight various innocent people have been 'fitted' up for a crime that carries the death penalty and then after the event have been proven innocent.

that sucks.

[Sava]

Originally posted by child of Thor
Are people who believe in the Death Penalty by definition Evil?

I'd say no. The death penalty is necesary in a large society. As some kind of super monkey, homo-sapian still hasn't fully adapted to being a large herd animal. So we need rules in our society to stop us from destroying ourselves. Thats all the Death Penalty is - rules that should not be broken(for the good of many) or you will die(the cost to the individual breaking those rules).

What i'm not so hot on is the way in hindsight various innocent people have been 'fitted' up for a crime that carries the death penalty and then after the event have been proven innocent.

that sucks.

I agree.

My position is, instead of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", we should work to fix the problems in the justice system.

Because just abolishing the death penalty is not going to fix those flaws...

Whether one believes... "the DP is racist" (it's not) or that innocents are falsely convicted... if you just get rid of the DP... those flaws will still exist in the justice system. If you work to fix those flaws overall in the justice system, then you can have the DP and not worry about them.

I'd support a moratorium on the DP if egregious flaws in the DP were exposed (as in Illinois a few years ago). But I still think that in principle, the penalty of death needs to be reserved for murderers who commit especially heinous crimes... even terrorists captured who have, or may have intended to commit terrible acts of terrorism (convicted in a court of law, given the same rights as ordinary Americans... due process, etc...), war criminals... I mean... there are really bad people out there who need to die. There is simply no good reason for keeping them alive in a jail cell for decades on end.

That's why I support the death penalty.

But that doesn't mean that I'm not blind to flaws that exist. And I support reforming the system to fix those flaws. But abolishing the penalty of death will not make those flaws go away. And I totally object to people who exagerrate those flaws, or make up false arguments to further their arguments for whatever ideological end.

[Tattila the Hun]

Make prisons into prisons, not motels. It should be punishment... If a guy is in jail for few years, let him read, learn a trade or something. If he is there for life, put him in a hole or something. I'm against death penalty, in favor of harsher conditions. Something like Russia or China have for all of their criminals, but as we are a civilized society, only for the cold-blooded murderers.

Learn something from Birkenau...

[Sava]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Make prisons into prisons, not motels. It should be punishment... If a guy is in jail for few years, let him read, learn a trade or something. If he is there for life, put him in a hole or something. I'm against death penalty, in favor of harsher conditions. Something like Russia or China have for all of their criminals, but as we are a civilized society, only for the cold-blooded murderers.

Learn something from Birkenau...

Part of the problem is that in America, we have prisons that are overcrowded... and we are putting people in jail, for drug offenses, who really have no business being there.

You see, America likes to punish you because your substance of choice might be marijuana instead of alcohol. Or to a greater extent... someone might use harder drugs to get high... and America feels that this deserves punishment. These people's lives suck so bad they need to use these awful substances to make themselves feel better... YES, LETS PUNISH THEM FOR IT. THAT WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM!

And by making those substances illegal, you can give criminal enterprises a source of income, fueling gang violence, organized crime, even terrorism.

I know this may be straying from the DP subject... But it's all connected people... You can't talk about the death penalty and justice reform without seriously looking at America's attitude towards the war on drugs. Of all the industrialized nations, America has the highest proportion of it's population incarcerated. And drugs play a huge role in this.

Throwing gasoline on the fire is not going to put it out.

But then again... one of America's biggest problems is that the people in charge are morons and they don't know how to solve problems. They are either unwilling or unable to think critically and come up with unorthodox solutions that may be counter-intuitive.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Preach on Sava

I see no inherent issue with legalizing it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If people who believe in the DP are evil, then:

Imran =