Dreaming of a (Secular) Christmas

[Bill3000]

Christmas was a secular holiday ever since it became a federal holiday, pretty much.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Dreaming of a (Secular) Christmas

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
In all the nonsense this year on the War on Christmas (or as we say in the State Department, the Global War on Christmas, or GWOC

I thought the GWOC was changed to the Global War On Yule and Intensely Silly Holidays or GWOYISH.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Bill3000
Christmas was a secular holiday ever since it became a federal holiday, pretty much.

I find amusing the Supreme Court case that says that if the Nativity is part of a larger Christmas display then Jesus has no more religous significance than a candy cane or a snowman.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Bill3000
Christmas was a secular holiday ever since it became a federal holiday, pretty much.

American Christmas is a secular holiday, which is the writers point. Hell, the Puritans banned Christmas, as has already been pointed out on these boards, and the holiday was not significantly celebrated in America until the middle of the 19th Century.

And what gave Christmas it's first big boost in the US? The popularity of the poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas," a/k/a "The Night Before Christmas."

And what gave Christmas it's next big boost in the US? Coca Cola's visual codification of Santa Claus's appearance.

What are the great American Christmas carols? "White Christmas," "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas," "The Christmas Song," "I'll be Home for Christmas," "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," "Frosty thw Snowman," "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer," "Silver Bells," "Winter Wonderland," etc.

Here's to our forefathers, who wisely ignored Jesus in favor of the weather, reindeer, snowmen, and a fat, fat Santa! Here's to the proud tradition of secular Christmas in America! As Jesus never said, "Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!"

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
What are the great American Christmas carols? "White Christmas," "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas," "The Christmas Song," "I'll be Home for Christmas," "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," "Frosty thw Snowman," "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer," "Silver Bells," "Winter Wonderland," etc.

"Hark, the Harald Angels Sing," "The First Noel," "O, Little Town of Bethlehem," "Joy to the World," . . . What's your point?

Celebrating Christmas is darn tricky. On one hand, it is a secular holiday. On the other, it's Christianity's second-most religious holiday.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


"Hark, the Harald Angels Sing," "The First Noel," "O, Little Town of Bethlehem," "Joy to the World," . . . What's your point?

My point is that, of those, only one is American -- and I'll bet you can't tell me which one it is. American carols don't have no stinkin' Savior in 'em!

Why do you hate freedom, Zkribbler?

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by The diplomat


Here are some examples from http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=10905

-----------------------
For example, the Plano, Tex., Independent School District last year banned “Christmas colors,” and prohibited students from handing out candy canes and pencils with religious messages on them -- even barring parents from exchanging religious Christmas items with other parents. Most troubling of all, at a time when good men and women in uniform are risking their lives for the cause of freedom around the globe, the district prohibited students from writing “Merry Christmas” on cards to soldiers because the phrase might “offend someone.”

Yet another variant of this urban myth. This has already been debunked and the district is taking Bill O'Reilly to court over it. Saginaw, Michigan, had the EXACT SAME STORY told about them by Bill O'Reilly. They're not too pleased with him either...

And in Dodgeville, Wis., the Ridgeway Elementary School changed the name of "Silent Night" to "Cold in the Night." Sung to the tune of "Silent Night," the lyrics were secularized as: "Cold in the night, no one in sight, winter winds whirl and bite, how I wish I were happy and warm, safe with my family out of the storm." Just this week, the school changed the policy only after massive public outcry and a campaign by concerned advocacy groups.

Again, debunked. This was a play that was written before any of this "War on Christmas" claptrap. And really, like no other songs ever in the history of Humanity have had different lyrics written to the same tune. Jesus tap-dancing Christ, get over yourselves. I suppose you piss yourself with anger everytime you think about the fact that this was common practice during the Middle Ages for hymnals and such. And don't get me started on modern hip-hop and rappers...

Hostility to faith, though, extends well beyond the classroom. Just last week, two Florida cities jointly tried to ban a private display of a nativity scene on public property, only backing down in the face of lawsuits. The ACLU in 2003 filed suit against Cranston City, R.I., challenging a menorah and a nativity scene. In Boston, the city changed the name of the annual Christmas tree to a “holiday tree,” sparking significant criticism in the community.

Same old whining about the ACLU. Wow, how utterly interestingly disinteresting.

-------------------

Now as I have said in the other thread, "war" is not the appropriate term to describe what is going on. It is simply political correctness run amock. That is why I said that people should leave Christmas alone.

This I partially agree with, though obviously with differences.

[Berzerker]

Christmas should be religious holiday! It is about the birth of Jesus, the savior of the world. If you don't like that, atheists: get over it!

People all over the northern latitudes gave a big sigh of relief 2-3 days after the solstice. The fear the sun would not ascend the heavens was more real to ancient peoples. Christianity's success came by the sword and flexibility to assimilate (or be assimilated) other beliefs.

[molly bloom]

And in my part of London (twinned with Mogadishu, Basra, Kandahar, Qom and Islamabad ) some local butchers are advertising HALAL turkeys- for that traditional Muslim Yuletide feast.


And in other news, my Jewish friends will be getting their birds from the KOSHER butcher's in north London, who will just coincidentally be getting them in at this time of year too.


Naturally as a good atheist I will also be celebrating any religious festivals involving the consumption of food.

Hanukkah

Christmas

Winter solstice


Now all you good Christians be sure not to erect any pagan Christmas trees, or hang any pagan mistletoe, or eat any pagan chocolate Yule logs.

Asian businesses in Manchester have reported a growing demand for Halal Christmas turkeys from the Muslim community.
It comes as more and more Muslims are sitting down to a Christmas dinner.

Twenty years ago it was almost impossible to find a turkey in the region that had been slaughtered according to Islamic tradition.

Now that the meat is available on the market, its popularity has soared.

Nasir Ahmed ordered extra deliveries of turkeys this year to his cash and carry shop in Longsight, Manchester.

He said: "I think the demand has been created by a lot of mixed marriages in this country.

"Also, people want to try different foods."

This month, turkeys have by far outsold the chickens at Tariq Amin's business, Amin Poultry, based in Oldham.

He supplies meat to customers across the North West.

When his firm opened, 25 years ago, about 20 turkeys were sold compared to the 700 bought this season.

"I think it's an opportunity for people to try a different type of meat, apart from chicken and lamb.

"A turkey dinner seems to have become a special thing to look forward to by Muslims."

Maimunah Maqbool, who grew up in Malaysia, now lives in Prestwich, Manchester.

"It's nice to teach the children how to celebrate Christmas after we've just celebrated Eid," she said.

"I used to live in Maylaysia - a multi-cultural country.

"We celebrated Divali, Eid, the Chinese New Year, and Christmas with the Christians.

"I still remember it - it was fun. I'd like my children to have the same memories."

But Muslims recognise that the traditionally dry turkey does not have to be served with sage and onion stuffing and cranberry sauce.

Mrs Maqbool said: "We roast our turkey but we spice it up.

"Ours is more of a Tandoori turkey. The stuffing is made from spiced potatoes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1724177.stm

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Now all you good Christians be sure not to erect any pagan Christmas trees, or hang any pagan mistletoe, or eat any pagan chocolate Yule logs.

Now now, molly. You know better than that. The Bible clearly tells us that while Mary and her midwives (some sheep) busied themselves with Jesus' birth in the manger (carefully hidden from the Liberals that sought to kill them all), Joseph was in the forest cutting down the perfect Christmas tree, as was tradition, and Saint Nicholas was in the bathroom crapping out the first fruitcake. Mrs. Claus was already pretty sauced by this time, so she just sang. Badly.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs


Now now, molly. You know better than that. The Bible clearly tells us that while Mary and her midwives (some sheep) busied themselves with Jesus' birth in the manger (carefully hidden from the Liberals that sought to kill them all), Joseph was in the forest cutting down the perfect Christmas tree, as was tradition, and Saint Nicholas was in the bathroom crapping out the first fruitcake. Mrs. Claus was already pretty sauced by this time, so she just sang. Badly.

Don't forget the three wise men, who after having brought their cheery gifts were then stoned to death for being astrologers, as the Bible advises that astrologers are an abomination.

Isaiah:

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;

Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. 47:14

Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

[MikeH]

Why do people keep trying to ruin christmas with religion?


It's SO annoying.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by MikeH
Why do people keep trying to ruin christmas with religion?


It's SO annoying.

My point exactly. Well said.

[Last Conformist]

We want our celebration of those most American values, family cohesion and consumerism, unsullied by dirty Christianity!

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by MikeH
Why do people keep trying to ruin christmas with religion?

It's SO annoying.

Walking through town this morning i dont think i saw anything religeous, we must lock them all up for christmas.

I saw in the town square:

A large white bouncy castle, except it wasnt a castle it was shaped like a large teapot and had about 50 kids inside. Its like 0 degrees and they still had to take their shoes off, thats what i call entertainment.

A large screen showing fabulous offers at Currys.

A band covering 2000 miles by the Pretenders.

And about 50 old people sat around on benches watching all this.