Dreaming of a (Secular) Christmas

[DinoDoc]

Do I have to beat some sense into you two or will you declare a ceasefire and take to celebrate the season of peace on earth and goodwill toward toward men?

[Arrian]

So Irving Berlin wrote a secular Christmas song and many after him did the same? Big deal!

Christmas should be religious holiday! It is about the birth of Jesus, the savior of the world. If you don't like that, atheists: get over it!

Sure. And Hannukah is the celebration of something Jewish. New Year's is for getting drunk and making promises you probably won't keep.

If you want Christmas to be a religious holiday, fine, celebrate it as such personally. I'm not gonna stop you. I'll be with my relatives exchanging gifts, eating tasty food, drinking some wine and listening to some Christmas music ala "White Christmas." Hey, somebody might even say Grace or something! I won't melt.

Individuals can choose how they go about celebrating Christmas (or not celebrating it, as the case may be). Nobody's gonna stop that - not even teh evil ACLU.

-Arrian

[DRoseDARs]

And last time I checked, Christmas was still a federal public holiday, which also makes it the ONLY religiously-based holiday to be federally observed. So shut the hell up.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Do I have to beat some sense into you two or will you declare a ceasefire and take to celebrate the season of peace on earth and goodwill toward toward men?

One, two, three, four. I declare a thumb war!

[Maquiladora]

What is wrong with people.

Originally posted by The diplomat

Christmas should be religious holiday! It is about the birth of Jesus, the savior of the world. If you don't like that, atheists: get over it!

No its not its about presents. I couldnt give a **** for Jesus or any religeon but it should still be called Christmas because its MERRY.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Arrian
I'll be with my relatives exchanging gifts, eating tasty food, drinking some wine and listening to some Christmas music ala "White Christmas." Hey, somebody might even say Grace or something! I won't melt.

Someone might play Silent Night (horror of horrors!). You might melt then if they say grace afterwards.

Anyway re the War on Christmas: According to e-mails I’ve gotten from parents this month, some public schools think they can avoid conflict by avoiding anything that smacks of religion. One complained about a school policy ordering all staff to refer to the Christmas tree as the “sharing tree” (though what that accomplishes isn’t clear since a Christmas tree is a Christmas tree by any other name). Another was upset when her child brought home artwork featuring Santa, Kwanza and Menorahs — but no crèches allowed. Most schools I know do better than this, but it only takes a few bad stories to paint all schools as part of a “war on Christmas.”

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/commentary.aspx?id=16171

[lord of the mark]

what Irving Berlin and others like him did may have been good for the war effort, for corporate types being relocated, for secular gentiles, for winter solstice pagans, and even for their own personal efforts to assimilate.

But I daresay it wasnt good for the Jews who dont want to assimilate, including, BTW, reform Jews, despite Myersons lame joke (which hasnt been true for decades, BTW) A genuine religious Christmas is clearly THEIR holiday, which we can ignore, as we largely ignore Easter, etc. A secular holiday we can either indulge in, and so lose our identity, which is incompatable with even a secularist honoring of the birth of Christ (and is not made more compatible by the paganizing of the holidy, whether ancient solstice paganism, or modern shopping mall paganism) or which we can reject, thus appearing to be scrooges, denying the secular joy of the season. Berlin et al, thus created the "December dillema" - and so were largely responsible for the inflation/transformation of Hanukkah.

Of course Myerson, who, AFAICT, has no particular interest in any substantive Jewishness (whether religious or secular Zionist) to the point where hes not even aware of the revival of Jewish identity among Reform Jews, is not concerned with this.

I would much rather see Christmas become MORE religious, less connected to the public square, let Hanukkah recede to its rightful place in the Jewish Calendar, and see Sukkus and Shavous revived. (This last is in our power, and is happening to some extent).
Pagans can and should celebrate the winter solstice in full wiccan ceremonial. You "secular Christians" who want to keep celebrating your feast of Santa can of course continue to do so - its a free country after all - but I dont see that you need to impose it on the rest of us.

[lord of the mark]

BTW, POTM has heard (from me?) that its traditional among American Jews to spend Christmas eve eating Chinese food and going to the movies. ( I think shes gotten this confused with getting Chinese on Christmas day, when those are the only restaurants open - the idea with the movies is again, theres nothing else to do, TV is all Christmas stuff, and the theaters are empty)

Now we were originally going to be in Brooklyn on the 24th, with the hasidim. Who dont go to movies at ALL. Who dont go out for Chinese - all THEIR restaurants are open as usual, so its no big deal. But it turns out we wont be leaving till Sunday (traveling on Christmas day, another custom ) So it looks like it will be Chinese and a movie for us

[Arrian]

Someone might play Silent Night (horror of horrors!). You might melt then if they say grace afterwards.

Silent Night has always been my favorite Christmas hymn.

So it looks like it will be Chinese and a movie for us

Yep, a Traditional Jewish Christmas (tm). I'm vaguely jealous - I love Chinese food.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

The new Jewish Christmas custom, is to spend Christmas Day doing charity/social service volunteer stuff, in particular filling in for Christian volunteers at soup kitchens, shelters, etc. Theres a big coordinated effort in DC on the 25th. We might have enjoyed that, if we werent traveling that day.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by The diplomat
Well, I'll stop "b*tching" when liberals leave Christmas alone!

What exactly are the liberals doing to Christmas?

[Q Classic]

If the right-wing nutters are to be believed part of it is a concerted effort by the liberals to start calling the season "Happy Holidays" or some such, which is somehow an insult to all Christians.

Bull****.

Unless O'Reilly is prepared to make the claim that Christmas is somehow not a Holiday (a Holy Day of ****ing Obligation, for chrissakes), then I'm going to call this whole War on Christmas thing what it is--media-generated bull****.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Spiffor

What exactly are the liberals doing to Christmas?

Here are some examples from http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=10905

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For example, the Plano, Tex., Independent School District last year banned “Christmas colors,” and prohibited students from handing out candy canes and pencils with religious messages on them -- even barring parents from exchanging religious Christmas items with other parents. Most troubling of all, at a time when good men and women in uniform are risking their lives for the cause of freedom around the globe, the district prohibited students from writing “Merry Christmas” on cards to soldiers because the phrase might “offend someone.”

And in Dodgeville, Wis., the Ridgeway Elementary School changed the name of "Silent Night" to "Cold in the Night." Sung to the tune of "Silent Night," the lyrics were secularized as: "Cold in the night, no one in sight, winter winds whirl and bite, how I wish I were happy and warm, safe with my family out of the storm." Just this week, the school changed the policy only after massive public outcry and a campaign by concerned advocacy groups.

Hostility to faith, though, extends well beyond the classroom. Just last week, two Florida cities jointly tried to ban a private display of a nativity scene on public property, only backing down in the face of lawsuits. The ACLU in 2003 filed suit against Cranston City, R.I., challenging a menorah and a nativity scene. In Boston, the city changed the name of the annual Christmas tree to a “holiday tree,” sparking significant criticism in the community.
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Now as I have said in the other thread, "war" is not the appropriate term to describe what is going on. It is simply political correctness run amock. That is why I said that people should leave Christmas alone.

[lord of the mark]

"The ACLU in 2003 filed suit against Cranston City, R.I., challenging a menorah and a nativity scene."


And I dont see that either belongs in a town square, etc. Chabad Lubavitch, which for mystical reasons of their own want to see menorahs EVERYWHERE at Hanukkah, has supported fundies on the nativity scenes (since a menorah is usually included for "balance") I dont agree with Chabad on this one.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Spiffor
What exactly are the liberals doing to Christmas?

Not celebrating it the way the fundies want us to.

Christmas at my house is all Santa and no religion. Suck it up, fundies.