Are You Ready for Some FOOTBALL! - Week 14

[Sava]

[Sava]

[-Jrabbit]

Sava, it seems you can't be happy unless you're arguing with someone during MNF. Let me make a couple points.

1. The Jeff Blake comment was satirical. My bad for not including an appropriate smiley.

2. The people crying for Grossman are all over Chicago. Virtually every media outlet. I never said they were all over Poly.

It's also being discussed ad nauseum in the national sports media. Where virtually no one, either ex-players or ex-coaches, think making the change is a good idea. (In fact, Madden just said that very thing. "It's not like Grossman';s ever shown he's a great quarterback" was the quote.

As for whether inserting Grossman is a good idea, here's something to chew on.

Rex Grossman
QB rating = 71.1 (67.9 in 2004, his 2nd year)
Completion pct = 54.5
TD passes = 3
INTs = 4
Fumbles = 5

Kyle Orton
QB rating = 60.9
Completion pct = 52.9
TD passes = 9
INTs = 13

Project Grossman to 13 games and you get 6.5 TDs and 8.66 INTs. So that's LESS scoring than Orton's providing. Oh, and that massive 71.1 QB rating would put him 27th in the league. Yeah, THAT will get us to the Super Bowl.

3. Oh, but you say Grossman has more experience (being 2 years longer holding a clipboard in this league). OK, let's see what he did in preseason this year...

Rex Grossman CHI -- 2 games
11 for 23 = 47.8%
129 yds. (64.5 yds/game)
TDs = 0
INTs = 0
Rating = 65.3

Oh yeah. Scary good.

Orton's preseason QB rating? 84.4 (admittedly, playing against -- and with -- 3rd stringers)

As I recall, both Tampa Bay and Baltimore won Super Bowls with crap for offense and killer defense. The key was mminimizing turnovers and opportunistic play.

Also - Do you really think Lovie will significantly open up the offensive game plan if he switches to a QB who hasn't been on the field since August? No way. And even if he did, do you you actually delude yourself that the presence of Rex Grossman would make it work??????? See above stats. Get serious.

Most of Orton's blatant overthrows are deliberate. We saw him when he was trying to stick the ball in tight spaces during preseason, and he was never anywhere near that inaccurate. Conclusion: Orton is clearly (and correctly) being coached to miss OB and long when his primary receiver is covered so it cannot result in INTs. He's taking a lot of flak for his accuracy as a result, and IMHO some of that is overstated and undeserved. His real issue is difficulty in learning to get to his 2nd and 3rd reads.

The same problem Grossman always had. In his very limited experience.

Orton now has more than double the game experience that Grossman has. He threw for 200 yds against a pretty good Steeler defense. With no turnovers. In the snow. When they knew he had to pass.

It just so happens that the Steelers whipped the Bears asses Sunday -- as a team, and specifically at the line of scrimmage. I'm a lot more concerned about that, especially with the NFL's best rushing team coming to town next week.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but don't make the mistake of calling mine uninformed. I think you'll see the actual NFl football community is in full agreement with me.

The fanboy world sees a chance to get to the Super Bowl and is desperately looking for ways to improve the team. Ways that -- at this point in time -- make no football sense. If the Bears had a qualified, experienced QB on the bench, it might be different. But they don't. and it's pure fantasy to pretend otherwise.

Again: Grossman averages 0.5 TDs and 0.67 INTs per game (regular season). Oh, and he has fumbled 5 times in his 6 games. And he has not taken a snap since August. (You know, when he was SUCKING in preseason.)

OK, I'm done. You can resume your personal attacks now.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Game is tied 13-13, with the ball on the 1 yard line, 2nd down. Try to ram it right up the middle twice, and don't get anything out of it. So instead of realizing how crappy they did the last two plays, and instead of realizing that the game is TIED. They decide to go for it on 4th down and once again try to ram it up the middle and once again get nothing! What kind of ****ing idiots have the ball on the ONE in a tied game and just walk away with NOTHING!?!

Yes, on the road with a chance to take a 4th quarter lead. Exactly what I was saying as I watched it.

Now you know why Dick Jauron is not the answer.

[Sava]

YOU ARE LISTENING TO WHAT JOHN MADDEN SAYS?

YOU ARE LOOKING AT ORTON'S PRESEASON STATS

and how can you project out Grossman's stats from his first 6 games to what he will do for the next 13 games? You have no idea what he will do. He's had such a long time to grow learning the system. There's no telling what he will perform like.

And the only thing I've been attacking is your pathetic arguments.

Maybe you should start listening to Chicago media and beat reporters who follow the team instead of JOHN MADDEN.

[-Jrabbit]

I see Imran is keeping a low profile even though his beloved Falcons are playing well on MNF. I guess he's already waiting for the big showdown next week...

[Sava]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Sava, it seems you can't be happy unless you're arguing with someone during MNF. Let me make a couple points.

oh, my reply to you was at 3PM Central Time

Can't you get anything right?

[Sava]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
I see Imran is keeping a low profile even though his beloved Falcons are playing well on MNF. I guess he's already waiting for the big showdown next week...

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145264

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


Yes, on the road with a chance to take a 4th quarter lead. Exactly what I was saying as I watched it.

Now you know why Dick Jauron is not the answer.

Jauron was never the answer. But we don't have any other answers, just lots of questions. We get one bone head after another in Detroit. How fricken sad.

What we really need to do is... FIRE MILLEN.

[Sava]

Originally posted by OzzyKP

FIRE MILLEN.

but keep Jauron

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Sava
YOU ARE LISTENING TO WHAT JOHN MADDEN SAYS?

YOU ARE LOOKING AT ORTON'S PRESEASON STATS

and how can you project out Grossman's stats from his first 6 games to what he will do for the next 13 games? You have no idea what he will do. He's had such a long time to grow learning the system. There's no telling what he will perform like.

And the only thing I've been attacking is your pathetic arguments.

Maybe you should start listening to Chicago media and beat reporters who follow the team instead of JOHN MADDEN.

Sava, while you claim to be attacking my arguments, all you have presented is bluster and mockery. Not a single fact.

1. At least I used Grossman's actual statistics, including his truly weak performance in this year's preseason. You have offered NOTHING in terms of factual support for your position.

2. I'm not in love with Orton. I think he has potential, but obviousl has a long way to go. But he does have far more experience in this offense than Grossman (unless you count clipboard time).

3. John Madden is a buffoon as an announcer, but he has played and coached the game. Won a Super Bowl as I recall. Also agreeing with me: Sean Salisbury, Ron Jaworski, Mike Ditka, Joe Theismann, and others.

Do you really think Boers, Bernstein, McNeil, Joniak, and the newspaper guys actually know more about football than the coaches and players who live it?

The Chicago media are iin the business of selling newspapers and getting ratings. The coaches and players are in the business of winning NFL football games.

Maybe YOU should stop listening to the pathetic, whiny, needy Chicago media tell you what to think and actually analyze the situation.

This is a fluid situation. It could change. But right now, the Bears best chance of continuing to win is with Kyle Orton as starter.

[Sava]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


Do you really think Boers, Bernstein, McNeil, Joniak, and the newspaper guys actually know more about football than the coaches and players who live it?

Yes. Every person you listed before is a complete meathead.

Madden? Ditka? Theisman? Salisbury? Jaworski?

Yes. I trust the analysis of the beat reporters and the media that follow the team, that see the players in practice every day, and that have direct access to the players and coaches. Not some washed up moron coach or player who probably watches 10 minutes of highlights and reads a cue card.

[-Jrabbit]

Sava on Rex Grossman...

You have no idea what he will do.

Neither do you.

He's had such a long time to grow learning the system.

Exacly one year longer than Orton, 14 weeks of which were in rehab.

There's no telling what he will perform like.

That's what's so scary.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Sava
Yes. Every person you listed before is a complete meathead.

Madden? Ditka? Theisman? Salisbury? Jaworski?

Yes. I trust the analysis of the beat reporters and the media that follow the team, that see the players in practice every day, and that have direct access to the players and coaches. Not some washed up moron coach or player who probably watches 10 minutes of highlights and reads a cue card.

The actual coaches see both players in practice every day. If they saw a potential savior on the bench, they would use him.

Now that you've admitted that "your" opinion is based on repeating what your favorite Chicago media outlets are telling you to think, I rest my case.

Now let's put this to rest and prepare for next week's Imran assault.

[Sava]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit

Exacly one year longer than Orton, 14 weeks of which were in rehab.

2 years. Which is an eternity in the growth progression of an NFL QB because of the importance of LEARNING THE SYSTEM.

Kyle knows about 15-20% of the system. The Bears offense is limited in how much of the offense they can run.

Also, Rex is a better skilled QB. He may be a wild card, but he has the POTENTIAL to do much better things!! The deep pass for instance. He can throw it farther and more accurate than Rex. Wouldn't you love to see what Muhammad and Rex could do? I would.

And if Rex is worse than Orton, he needs to go back to Florida. BYE BYE.

But it's pointless to keep him on the bench if he's healthy... ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS. YOU WASTED A ROSTER SPOT FOR HIM!