Are You Ready for Some FOOTBALL! - Week 14

[Sava]

The numbers for the defense are just insane. So far, this Bears defense is better than the 2002 Tampa Bay Bucs, the 2000 Ravens, and yes, the 1985 BEARS... Troy Aikman has a new rating for team defenses that takes into account total yardage, points allowed, and red zone efficiency and so far the 2005 Bears have the best rating in the modern era. The Bucs and Ravens were in the mid 90's, so were the 85 Bears... this Bears team was over 100 before the Carolina game. It's gotten even higher since then.

it's the lack of an offense that is preventing them from winning more games...

the Bears are averaging only 128 PASSING YARDS PER GAME

Kyle Orton is not fumbling, or taking sacks, or throwing interceptions... but he is not winning games either... just not screwing up. Maybe the defense can be dominant enough. But each game is just hanging in the balance. Rex Grossman needs to get 100% and he needs to come back if the Bears want to have a chance in the playoffs. Kyle Orton is not going to lead you to success in the playoffs.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Sava




Did you not read my earlier post?

The Colts are good, but very overrated. Especially the defense. The Bengals game proved the defense is not for real. Let's examine the Colts performance this season.

In the beginning they played horrible teams... it's not hard to hold Baltimore to 7 points... Cleveland to 6 points... the 49ers to 3 points... and Jacksonville struggled in that second game, but they still managed to average 5.3 yards per rush. Jacksonville also had more total yardage than Indy in that game. That was also the game where Leftwich could not complete the pass on the last play of the game for the touchdown to tie.

AND THE COLTS DEFENSE LAST YEAR WAS 29TH IN THE LEAGUE

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!?!

fair weather fans

A long post, but a little heavily on capital letters and a little light on good arguments.

No Bears fan should be talking about soft schedules this year. I believe you've beaten two teams total with winning records.

I couldn't give less of a **** about total yardage. Good defenses are built on turnovers, not yards. That's why the Bengals are so damn good. Brett Favre gained 450 yards passing against them. Does that mean they're awful? Does that make their five interceptions meaningless? In the Jacksonville game, the Colts forced SIX fumbles and made six sacks.

That's also why the Colts defense was great last year. It made a league-high 46 turnovers, one more than the vaunted New England Patriots defense. Nearly 40 of those turnovers led to Colts scores.

The Colts defense never had to win a game late in the year. They only needed to come up with game-icing turnovers and sacks, and every time they delivered. Maybe if you'd look at statistics that actually mattered, people would care what you think.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Sava
Kyle Orton is not fumbling, or taking sacks, or throwing interceptions... but he is not winning games either... just not screwing up. Maybe the defense can be dominant enough. But each game is just hanging in the balance. Rex Grossman needs to get 100% and he needs to come back if the Bears want to have a chance in the playoffs. Kyle Orton is not going to lead you to success in the playoffs.

While I would have to agree that at this point, Kyle hasn't proved he can "win games"... But I don't understand this faith in Grossman. What has he ever done except get injured? Kyle has now started more games... I think it would be silly to change QB's right now. We aren't talking about a Elway or Farve coming off an injury... we are talking about an unproven QB.

As a Bears fan, we have to pray that Kyle continues to improve, and that by the time the play offs come, he is ready to actually win a game. Let him and Grossman fight it out next year for the starting job.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What has he ever done except get injured?

Hey, that takes a certain skill

[Ming]

Listening to many people in Chicago, you would think Grossman is the second coming of God. But look at his stats...

In 6 starts (yes, that's all, 6 stinking starts) the bozo has a 71.1 QB rating

He's thrown 4 interceptions and only 3 TD's.
He's 85/156 for a 55%, for just over a 1000 yards
He's only completed 15 passes over 20 yards, and only 2 for 40+ yards.

Now granted, these stats are marginally better than Kyle's... but Klyle got off to a rocky start. Pretty expected for a rookie being thrown to the wolves. The offense is just starting to get used to Kyle... now is not time to make a change back to somebody who has only 6 games.

[-Jrabbit]

Lovie's been quite clear -- he's staying with Orton.

The only way that changes is if Orton goes belly-up with injuries or stupid play in the last couple games of the year. As far as the playoffs go, we'll just take a deep breath and hope the D plays great.

I honestly believe that the Bears can get to the Super Bowl based on defense alone. But I'm very fearful of what Indy might do to them. That team is an offensive machine, and getting burned on the deep ball is really the Bears' only glaring weakness on defense.

That said, getting killed in the Super Bowl would be a great result for this season.

[Ming]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
That said, getting killed in the Super Bowl would be a great result for this season.

Considering that many kool-aid drinkers thought 9 - 7 would be a fantastic year

While I'm not ready to predict they can make it to the Super Bowl... their defense should be able to keep them in any of their remaining games, and nobody really looks that good in the NFC.

But yeah... Indy looks pretty damn tough, and I don't think the current Bears defense can stop them. And unless the offense wakes up, there is no way we can trade touchdowns with anybody, especially real teams

[Zopperoni]

You can still get 11/2 odds on betting the Bears to win the NFC Ch'ship, 16/1 for SB40.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Jaguar

A long post, but a little heavily on capital letters and a little light on good arguments.

actually, I totally PWNED you

No Bears fan should be talking about soft schedules this year. I believe you've beaten two teams total with winning records.

Three...

and the teams the Bears have beaten have a winning percentage of .420

and the teams that the Bears have faced, overall, have a winning percentage of .486

FAR BETTER THAN THE COLTS OPPONENTS

so I have totally PWNED YOU AGAIN

I couldn't give less of a **** about total yardage. Good defenses are built on turnovers, not yards. That's why the Bengals are so damn good. Brett Favre gained 450 yards passing against them. Does that mean they're awful? Does that make their five interceptions meaningless? In the Jacksonville game, the Colts forced SIX fumbles and made six sacks.

It means that the Bengals have a good secondary full of "ball hawks". But Cincinatti's overall defense is not good by any stretch of the imagination.

That's also why the Colts defense was great last year. It made a league-high 46 turnovers, one more than the vaunted New England Patriots defense. Nearly 40 of those turnovers led to Colts scores.

The Colt's defense was 29th in the league. THAT IS NOT GREAT. Turnovers are important, but getting turnovers does not make a defense great. Look at the other teams who had a lot of takeaways last year. Buffalo, Carolina, and Cincinatti. 3 of the top 4 teams who lead the league in takeaways did not make the playoffs.

PWNED AGAIN!!!

Sava 3 - Jaguar 0

The Colts defense never had to win a game late in the year. They only needed to come up with game-icing turnovers and sacks, and every time they delivered. Maybe if you'd look at statistics that actually mattered, people would care what you think.

YES, it's not like defense wins championships or anything!

Stick to being a fair weather fan. You can't argue football with the big boys, son.

[Jaguar]

Getting turnovers is exactly what makes a defense great. Here are the top teams in turnover differential. What do they all have in common?

Cincinatti (8-3) +20
Denver (9-2) +14
Jacksonville (8-3) +12
New York (G) (7-4) +10
Pittsburgh (7-4) +9
Indianapolis (11-0) +8

It's not great offenses. Pittsburgh is 22nd in yardage (so of course, they must be terrible because everyone knows that clock control and time of possession mean absolutely nothing) and Jacksonville only started breaking the 30 point mark a couple of weeks ago.

What do you think it is that makes those teams win game after game?

[Sava]

The Bears are -1 on turnovers for the season. And according to this new rating that Troy Aikman has come up with, the 2005 Bears defense is the best of the modern era. They are better than the 2000 Ravens, the 2002 Bucs, and the 1985 Bears.


PWNED AGAIN

Turnovers helps win games. But it is not necessarily what makes a defense great.

This is what you need to understand.

BTW, Buffalo is +8... funny how you did not mention them

Denver's defense is 17th. Cincinatti's is 20th. The NY Giant's is 23rd.

THOSE TEAMS ARE WINNING WITH OFFENSE AND TURNOVERS... NOT DEFENSE.

Yes, turnovers are a part of defense. But they can also happen on special teams. But they are not something you gameplan for. Turnovers are mostly opprotunistic and depend a great deal upon the other team MAKING A MISTAKE.

GREAT DEFENSES will stop you from GAINING YARDS and SCORING POINTS. Also, they will simply beat the hell out of you in the red zone. The Bears this year have like a 16% Red Zone efficiency. 1st in the NFL. They only allow the opponent 254 yards of offense per game. 1st in the NFL. They only allow 10.9 points per game. 1st in the NFL.

To put this in perspective... the Bears could play 3 more games than the Colts, and still they would allow less points than Indy's defense (if you go by the season average). THAT IS HOW DOMINATING THE BEARS DEFENSE IS.

Do you want me to continue to PWN you?

You better just stop posting before you further embarass yourself.

[Jaguar]

Arguing with you is good for my self-esteem.


Image edited by Ming... It was screwing up the display of the thread... and really had nothing to do with football

(Next time, don't make it too large)


Jag edit: Here's a link to the image instead.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/yaguar/sava.jpg

[Sava]

that's a funny pic...

but it does nothing to support your arguments...

also, the stat you are using to support your argument is not a defensive stat... the turnover ratio takes into account the turnovers the defense gets minus the turnovers the OFFENSE gives up...

IT IS NOT A STAT THE REFLECTS THE PERFORMANCE OF THE DEFENSE

of course Cincinatti and Indy will have good turnover ratios... they have Carson Palmer and Manning, respectively... those QB's aren't going to throw a lot of interceptions.

you have been PWNED... HORRIBLY

but feel free to post more pics since you have no argument or facts to support an argument!

[Sava]

BTW, let's ask everyone else... what is a better way to judge a defense in the NFL?

Total Defense (yardage), points allowed, red zone efficiency...

or

Turnover ratio (which takes into account the OFFENSE's turnovers)

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Sava

but feel free to post more pics since you have no argument or facts to support an argument!

Gladly.