US, not africans, responsible for slavery

[The Mad Viking]

I remain incredulous that so many people try to mitigate the responsibility for slavery by making assertions like, "Most slaves were captured and sold by their countrymen."

The act of buying and keeping a slave demonstrates a belief in the justification of slavery. The moral responsibility remains, unmitigated, with the people who bought and kept slaves.

There would not have been a slave trade if not for the demand created by the US. It's not like some Africans captured others, and went door to door in the US convincing people to try their great new product.

The US had a Constitution, prepared by educated people, which they duly ignored.

In Africa, some tribes captured members of other tribes, usually ancestral enemies, and sold them to slave traders. They were stone age people living by a stone age creed. They were not selling their "countrymen", they were eliminating their ancestral rivals, in a manner consistent with what virtually all ancient and most Medieval peoples practiced during times of conflict.

It is sad that it is so hard for Americans to say, "This was an era of our history that we are not proud of."

Every nation has done things they are not proud of.

Canada has had many shameful dealings with its aboriginal populations, and interred innocent Canadian citizens of Japanese descent during WW II, stealing their assets in the process.

[SlowwHand]

If I buy drugs from you, who is responsible the most?
Who gets the stiffer penalty?

Totally, I swear to God, all I'm saying on this.

[ajbera]

And it wasn't just the U.S. buying slaves y'know. Many other nations were practicing it as well. Take your prejudices elsewhere.

[Ming]

Hmmm... slavery started long before the Americas were even discoverd. I guess we were just taking a lesson from our enlightened European brothers

So let's blame Europe

[Pekka]

We didn't take slaves. Take your racism elsewhere, slaveorators!

[Japher]

The moral responsibility remains, unmitigated, with the people who bought and kept slaves.

If there is no market there is no market... either way you look at it. Both are morally responsible IMO; those who bought AND those who sold.

I'm sorry, MV, if you don't think that the US has apologized enough over the past 100 years for slavery. Perhaps we should make white people apologize daily... no every minute... every hour!@ WTF do you want?

[reds4ever]

Re: US, not africans, responsible for slavery

Originally posted by The Mad Viking


In Africa, some tribes captured members of other tribes, usually ancestral enemies, and sold them to slave traders. They were stone age people living by a stone age creed. They were not selling their "countrymen", they were eliminating their ancestral rivals, in a manner consistent with what virtually all ancient and most Medieval peoples practiced during times of conflict.

The 'Noble Savage' bit eh? I don't buy that line at all.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ming
Hmmm... slavery started long before the Americas were even discoverd. I guess we were just taking a lesson from our enlightened European brothers

So let's blame Europe

Any way you look at it, whitey is to blame. Before whitey, all those quaint little non-whites were dancing in forest without a care in the world.

[Seeker]

"We didn't take slaves. Take your racism elsewhere, slaveorators!"


i thought that one of the big targets in a Scanda-hoovian viking raid was 'thralls' so that they could spend the rest of the year drinking mead?

Would the kingdoms of norway and sweden have existed without the labour of Irish and Anglo-Saxon thralls??

Reparations!!

[Cyclotron]

This was an era of our history that we are not proud of.

Now that that's said, I think American culture has been very open about discussing our history of slavery - far more open than some.

Additionally, I don't think that the culpability of Africans and Americans are zero-sum; it's not as if when you blame the Americans the Africans have to get away looking like saints, or vice versa. The bottom line is that it was immoral to enslave people, immoral to buy slaves, immoral to sell slaves, and immoral to keep slaves, and when you consider it that way there is plenty of blame to go around.

[Kuciwalker]

The US had a Constitution, prepared by educated people, which they duly ignored.

Where?

And, you know, I think half a million American deaths - at the time a significant fraction of our population - might be sufficient atonement for the crime of slavery. (yeah states rights/maintaining the union blah blah whatever)

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
And, you know, I think half a million American deaths - at the time a significant fraction of our population - might be sufficient atonement for the crime of slavery. (yeah states rights/maintaining the union blah blah whatever)

The US (with the south in particular) paid a very high price for slavery. There is no future in constantly assessing blame based on what ethiniticity a person is or what country they come from. It's sad that some people choose to live in the past and not the present or future. If blacks continue to choose to be defined by the misfortune of their ancestors then there is truely no hope for any of us. I bear no grude against the English and the brutality they inflicted on my ancestors in Ireland. It would be stupid and counterproductive to do so.

[Zkribbler]

Trying to hang the evil of slavery on the single peg of the US makes little sense. As pointed out earlier, the slave trade existed long before the US did. For example, Columbus was the captain of a slaver working first out of the Balkans and later out of West African before he turned to exploring.

The first slaves were brought into the US in 1620, which is a century and a half before the Constitution was written. The statement, "The US had a Constitution, prepared by educated people, which they duly ignored," overlooks the fact that the original Constitution protected slavery, establishing that slaves should be counted as 3/5 people for the purpose of state representation in the Congress. Kuci points out that it took the blood of a half a millions of Americans to wash out this stain on our history.

What we must not overlook is that "human trafficing" still exists today. And not just in backward places like the Sudan. The problem is worldwide. Los Angeles is a major hub, with thousands being smuggled through here ever year to be forced to work in the sex, garment and housekeeping industries.

[DinoDoc]

Bad troll. No more food for you.

[Bosh]

Well look at it this way. What would happen to the African kingdoms if they didn't sell slaves? They would find it damn hard to buy sufficient guns to ward off other tribes who were looking for people who didn't have enough guys to keep from becomming slaves. As long as one tribe was slaving and using the profits to buy guns, the rest had to start doing the same to defend themselves. Really really nasty prisoner dilemma.

What would the Europeans and Americans do if they didn't buy slaves? Make a bit less money.