US, not africans, responsible for slavery

[Whoha]

he said guns.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I said that to say that I knew the whole "states rights" etc would be mentioned as a counter and that I don't accept it, not to concede that it is correct.

What you accept is irrelevant when a mountain of first person narratives of why people were fighting exists.

This is starting to sound like the doctrine of original sin...

Sin is an action. You can;t really take it back. At best. you can try a counteraction.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Bosh

All of that takes time. Once one kingdom started selling slaves the other kingdoms suddenly found themselves in desperate need of guns IMMEDIATELY to stop themselves from being turned into merchandise. There was no other way to raise cash quickly enough to compete with the slaving kingdoms. You had similar boughts of carnage when guns were first introduced to other areas of the world, for example to New Zealand where the appearance of guns unleashed twenty years of carnage.

I take it you've heard of Ngapuhi chief Hongi who made a trip to England to meet the King in 1820. On his way back to New Zealand he stopped off in Australia and traded all the gifts the King had given him for 300 muskets. Once he got back to New Zealand he initiated a ten year period of warfare and cannibalism on his "fellow countrymen", slaughtering thousands.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Gunpowder != guns.

Though I suppose to someone with your understanding of technology there isn't much difference...

Has civ thaught you nothing? What are you doiung on this site, but wasting our time with your childish musings...

Sad.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
What you accept is irrelevant when a mountain of first person narratives of why people were fighting exists.

Those first person narratives are irrelevent to my point.

Sin is an action. You can;t really take it back. At best. you can try a counteraction.

That sounds rather like past crimes, too. As I said, you're preaching Original Sin at us.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap


Has civ thaught you nothing? What are you doiung on this site, but wasting our time with your childish musings...

Sad.

I'm trying to determine whether you're being deliberately ironic or just stupid.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Those first person narratives are irrelevent to my point.

Point? You mean your opinin that somehow the civil war atones for anything. If that is the way you feel, whatever. As I said, I couldn't care less. I simply disagree completely with it.

That sounds rather like past crimes, too. As I said, you're preaching Original Sin at us.

Whatever "grasshopper". Obviously you pluck opinions out of mid-air. When you decide to put together a coherent argument, like Cyclotron did, post it.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Seeker
i thought that one of the big targets in a Scanda-hoovian viking raid was 'thralls' so that they could spend the rest of the year drinking mead?

From the 8th through the 9th century the biggest slave market in the world was in Viking occupied Dublin.

[Kuciwalker]

Whatever "grasshopper". Obviously you pluck opinions out of mid-air. When you decide to put together a coherent argument, like Cyclotron did, post it.

I'm too busy pointing out the gaping flaws in yours.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Whatever "grasshopper". Obviously you pluck opinions out of mid-air. When you decide to put together a coherent argument, like Cyclotron did, post it.

I'm too busy pointing out the gaping flaws in yours.

The only one to respond to my arguement was cyclotron. You just reply to my replies to your innane posts.

Don't get delusions of grandeur boy.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by GePap
Whatever "grasshopper". Obviously you pluck opinions out of mid-air. When you decide to put together a coherent argument, like Cyclotron did, post it.

Alright, if it's so coherent, respond already

[GePap]

Originally posted by Cyclotron


Alright, if it's so coherent, respond already

Why would I respond? I generally agree with what you said. NO, the civil war was not an "atonement" for slavery. Yes, one can't possibly atone for something, specially a century and a half later. Yes, one needs to live in the present.

The reason pople do bring slavery back up is because we actually DON'T live in the present. We patently ignore the obvious racial differences in the country in terms of living standards and so forth, talk about how they don;t exist, how people who bring them up "live in the past" and then pat ourselves in the back about how good things are.

Even for blacks, I guess its easier to blame troubles on the past actions of the whites than on themselves AND the present actions of whites beyond simply not saying sorry and getting a one time check.

[Cyclotron]

Fair enough. Just wanted to hear what you thought of that.

Personally, I'm just amazed this hasn't turned into a pro/anti reparations slog, even though I brought the subject up.

[Barnabas]

silly question, why did you fight a civil wat and not just become 2 different independent countries?

[Barnabas]

by the way, has anybody noticed in the last years a trend to whitewash atrocities?

A spanish friend told me that in Germany, public tv showed a documentary about how Guernica was not really that bad, that few people died and it was all an exageration.
And in the internet I read lots of articles about how vikings or mongols have been unfairly critiziced, they would say, vikings were great explores and merchants, and would completely avoid talking about the raids, the mass killings, the rapes, or they would talk about the pax mongolica and not about all the central asia cities which were comlpletely destroyed.

Last week I read a guy in another message board who said that the civil war was not about slavery, that if you measure skulls of slaves from those times you will see that they are as tall and as strong as the whites from those times, which means that they were treated fine, and that slaves were sold by africans, so, it is not really 100% the fault of the white men.

That kind of thing bother me.