US, not africans, responsible for slavery

[Cyclotron]

I love how he totally ignores how totally I pwned him and addresses Berserker's and Nick's posts exclusively.

[Montesquieu]

Here in Brazil slavery was only abolished in 1888. It was the last country to actually free her slaves, and for a good reason: they had a large importance in our economy, since Portugal brought a great number of them to work in the sugar plantations here. The responsability, I think, is more in the hands of the european powers than in our american hands. They made slavery such an important activity for the american continent that we couldn't simply free the slaves or we would go bankrupt. We actually had an entire process of setting people free until we could actually abolish slavery completely.

There are moral implications, I know. But the economy is always a priority in our human minds, although freedom, civil rights and common sense may be not.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Isn't the word "Slav" actually a derivation of the word "slave", a name given to the Slavic peoples by the Vikings describing the Slavic peoples from the viewpoint of the Vikings?

Wrong direction and backward derivation. As said above, it came from the Latin "sclavus," but that first appeared around the start of the 9th century and derived from Slovenci, the name by which the Slavs being enslaved by the HRE at the time called themselves.

[JohnT]

You know, I just told my wife that "slav=slave" story just two weeks ago and she thanked me.

Now I've gotta tell her I was just being a dumbass.


... or not.

[Dr Strangelove]

I think that the ancient Romans called their slaves "servili". I seem to recall that the campaign against Sparticus was called the "Third Servile War", there having been two previous major slave uprisings.

Anyway, so we get the word from the medieval Germans, not the Vikings. Big deal. It's not like there's a great deal of difference between the two.

To the slavs the root word meant "famous". What irony.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking


Uh, did you read the last paragraph of my OP?

Why yes I think I did thats why i mentioned what i did. Truth be known , You may be able to admit that your country has down wrong things, as most of the us posters here have also admited, but not all canadians have been able to see that what they have done is wrong let alone admit it. I also believe i said that comment was not a personal insult toward u or other canadians. simple fact of the matter is i have heard from 5 people from saseketchwan that still believe the indian inferior and treat them as slaves and criminals. The other folks i have worked with 4 from quebec, and two from manitoba have said folks all over canda still feel this way. So there fore i see it pointless for you to single out the us as a whole that cant admit what they did was wrong when you are in fact incorrect. Oh and i did agree that the us treatment of the indians was just as bad and doesnt exist as it did 100 years ago.
I have just been informed what u mean by aboriginal. I am sorry we dont call the native indians ab originals they are simple native indians

[Seeker]

Speaking of aboriginals, does anyone know what the signifigance of the Great Slave Lake in the Northwest Territory is?

[Tuberski]

Wikipedia on slav:

Even the origin of the word "Slav" remains controversial. In the Old Slavonic language that word is "slovìne".

There are obvious similarities to the word slovo meaning "word, talk". Thus slovìne would mean "people who speak (the same language)", i.e. people who understand each other, as opposed to the Slavic word for Germans, nemtsi, meaning "speechless people" (from Slavic nìmi - mute, silent, dumb). Compare the Greek coinage of the term "barbarian".

Another obvious similarity links "Slavs" to the word slava, that is "glory" or "praise". The word came about from the verb "slyti", "to be known about"; it arises from the corresponding causative verb, "slaviti".

Sometimes "slav" is calculated to derive from "slov-" by the distinctly Russian phenomenon of akanie. Almost every Slavic nation which retains its initial name for "Slav" uses the word "slovìne" for the meaning.

Some linguists believe, however, that these obvious connections mislead.

A false etymology popular in National Socialist propaganda, but also found in some older editions of the Oxford English Dictionary, connected Slav with slave. There is certainly no basis for this.

So, choose what you will, except the slave part.

ACK!

[Berzerker]

MV

Yes. It is childish. Its what a kid on the schoolyard does when they are caught doing something wrong.

Huh? Not sure what that has to do with what I said.

Couldn't afford? Total absolute hypocrisy. Rationalization of unjustifiable behavior for your personal convenience.

Of course slaveowners were/are hypocrites, but you didn't ask about that. You said the immorality of slavery was ignored when in fact many, including Jefferson, knew it was immoral. You're changing the subject...

My point is that you are responsible for your own actions, and the fact that others may behave reprehensibly in no way absolves you, at all, for that responsibility.

Then how can "the US" be responsible for slavery? It was merely allowed or dis-allowed by the states. Individuals owned slaves or didn't own them and some states banned slavery early on or almost immediately upon statehood.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I think that the ancient Romans called their slaves "servili". I seem to recall that the campaign against Sparticus was called the "Third Servile War", there having been two previous major slave uprisings.

I believe you're dead on here, though that's not contradictory if the term first appeared in the 9th century.

Anyway, so we get the word from the medieval Germans, not the Vikings. Big deal. It's not like there's a great deal of difference between the two.

Yeah, but they from the Byzantines, according to the link, which is the reason for my "Wrong direction" comment.

Tubes... I'll trust the American Heritage Dictionary over Wiki until shown otherwise.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski


I have just been informed what u mean by aboriginal. I am sorry we dont call the native indians ab originals they are simple native indians

Amerindian

[Stefu]

I'm still kind of interested in what was the importance of Pekka coming from Finland for this discussion.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Solomwi

Tubes... I'll trust the American Heritage Dictionary over Wiki until shown otherwise.

Especially since every dictionary I've seen with the etymology says the same thing.

[The Mad Viking]

Cyclotron - since you were technically correct, I didn't really have to respond. And since it was a grammatical dissection, it was not interesting to respond. It is very difficult to get every nuance of meaning into a 6 word thread title, and still have it work as a headline. How many newspaper headlines stand up to such scrutiny?

US responsibility for its role in slavery is not mitigated by participation by some Africans!

Doesn't have the same ring. Pretty sure that was what my post was about.

Nicki-
I did use the word moral once, you are correct about that.

But I'm surprised you don't see that legal and moral responsibility are both secondary to PHYSICAL responsibility. Causing a thing to exist is neither a legal nor moral issue.

On Jefferson - Nicki, it is simply to convenient to keep holding slaves on the premise that bad things would happen if you set them free. (Wait, I thought he simply couldn't afford it. Now he's actually got their best interests at heart by keeping them enslaved!

Berz- you say that Jefferson was not hypocritical because he "knew" that slavery was immoral - and such he wasn't "ignoring" the immorality while he continued to own slaves. That is quite a feat of sophistry, Berz, and a re-definition of hypocrisy that turns its meaning 180 degrees.

On "Prime Mover" - the prime mover is not necessarily the inventor of a phenomenon. They are the initiator of a series of events. Nevertheless, in the North American slave trade, calling the US the Prime Mover would be innaccurate. Spain, AFAIK, would have been the prime mover, perhaps with Portugal acting in parallel.

Lastly, Berz - the "children in the schoolyard". When people mention the US involvement in the slave trade, you often hear "but the slaves own 'countrymen' sold the slaves in the first place" as if this is some sort of defence for US actions.

It's not.

Its like little Johnny, in trouble for giving Carl a bloody nose. Johnny defends his actions by telling the teacher that Carl's older brother told him to punch Carl.

[Cyclotron]

Cyclotron - since you were technically correct, I didn't really have to respond. And since it was a grammatical dissection, it was not interesting to respond. It is very difficult to get every nuance of meaning into a 6 word thread title, and still have it work as a headline. How many newspaper headlines stand up to such scrutiny?

Oh no, why should I expect accuracy from the thesis of the thread that you repeated several times. Goddamn man, if you can't be on the level with the premise, what's left? Grammatical dissection my ass - you meant a completely different thing from what you posted.

By the way - where I'm from, people admit when they f*cked up, they don't ignore it and move on.

US responsibility for its role in slavery is not mitigated by participation by some Africans!

Doesn't have the same ring. Pretty sure that was what my post was about.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Do I really have to post this again?

Most of you read at least the whole thread title, and understood that my premise was that the US and not Africans bore the responsibility for the slave trade between the US and Africa.

At this point we must conclude that you are, definitively, either dishonest, illiterate, or stupid. Pick one.