Export of Democracy to Iraq

[Mart]

Italian report: U.S. forces burned Iraqi civilians
Pictures and video to see

[Sava]

anti US propaganda

I'm gonna download this...

I'm sure there is some interesting war footage...

probably some gruesome pictures that get twisted to their agenda...

the fact is, civilians do get killed... and that is a shame... but the army doesn't target them, not purposely... such is war...

[Mart]

Do not call it propaganda

Take a closer look what the thing is about.

When some US citizens get killed - it is terrorism
when civilians in other countries get killed - it is colateral damage.

Stop being brainwashed and see things as they are

[Kuciwalker]

I don't care if you're an Emperor.

[Sava]

Originally posted by mart7x5
Do not call it propaganda

Take a closer look what the thing is about.

When some US citizens get killed - it is terrorism
when civilians in other countries get killed - it is colateral damage.

Stop being brainwashed and see things as they are

dude, it starts out with Vietnam footage...

this is not an objective look at US policy in Iraq...

it is propaganda designed to shock the audience into thinking the US eats babies...

[Mart]

Sava, I know a lot of people have feelings to many things about our world as we know it.

I have seen various things and listened to what people say. I understand US soldiers in Iraq that have to deal with just being there possibly loosing their lives any day.

However, take a closer look to things. The final effect is that a lot of civilians get killed in horrible way - burned by white phosphorous or other incendiary chemical agent. And this is simply wrong. The US is presently too powerful and have too many economic ties with many countries so noone really is courageous enough to say something about it. UN does not count any more. What they can do? While some people are horrified by scenes of decapitation in Iraq, I am the same horrified by burned bodies cause of incendiary chemicals. Some people call insurgents in Iraq barbarians, because they cut off people's heads. For me there is really no difference between that and burning someone's flesh with white phosphorus.

It is not about political policies. It is about what is humane and what is not.

[Kuciwalker]

[Ted Striker]

I've heard some pretty damning things from that Italian report, but have not yet reviewed it, so can't really comment.


Though I have to say, nothing surprises me now considering the crap we have done up to this point.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

[DRoseDARs]

According to a US Army-published periodical, we DID use White Phosphorus in Fallujah as a weapon, not just for simple illumination as claimed by the US Government. Now how much of these reports of mass slaughter and such are just trumped-up charges I don't know. Only an honest and independant investigation could uncover the truth. Pardon the pun, but I ain't holding my breath.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/9/164137/436

US Army Admits Use of White Phosphorus as Weapon
by Steven D
Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 02:48:58 PM PDT

(From the diaries. Let's see them deny this *smurf* now -- kos)

That's right. Not from Al Jazheera, or Al Arabiya, but the US *smurfing* Army, in their very own publication, from the (WARNING: pdf file) March edition of Field Artillery Magazine in an article entitled "The Fight for Fallujah":

"WP [i.e., white phosphorus rounds] proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE. We fired 'shake and bake' missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out."

* Steven D's diary :: ::
*

In other words the claim by the US Government that White Phosphorus was used only for illumination at Fallujah had been pre-emptively debunked by the Army. Indeed, the article goes on to make clear that soldiers would have liked to have saved more WP rounds to use for "lethal missions."

However, as Mark Kraft, an emailer to Eric Alterman's blog, Altercation, points out today, the Field Artillery Magazine article fails to inform its audience that

. . . there is no way you can use white phosphorus like that without forming a deadly chemical cloud that kills everything within a tenth of a mile in all directions from where it hits. Obviously, the effect of such deadly clouds weren't just psychological in nature.

Furthermore, (from a link provided by Mr. Kraft, thank you very much) testimony about the use of these "shake and bake" techniques of WP usage are detailed in an account by an embedded Journalist regarding the April 2004 attacks on Fallujah by the Marines:

Fighting from a distance

After pounding parts of the city for days, many Marines say the recent combat escalated into more than they had planned for, but not more than they could handle.

"It's a war," said Cpl. Nicholas Bogert, 22, of Morris, N.Y.

Bogert is a mortar team leader who directed his men to fire round after round of high explosives and white phosphorus charges into the city Friday and Saturday, never knowing what the targets were or what damage the resulting explosions caused.

"We had all this SASO (security and stabilization operations) training back home," he said. "And then this turns into a real goddamned war."

Just as his team started to eat a breakfast of packaged rations Saturday, Bogert got a fire mission over the radio.

"Stand by!" he yelled, sending Lance Cpls. Jonathan Alexander and Jonathan Millikin scrambling to their feet.

Shake 'n' bake

Joking and rousting each other like boys just seconds before, the men were instantly all business. With fellow Marines between them and their targets, a lot was at stake.

Bogert received coordinates of the target, plotted them on a map and called out the settings for the gun they call "Sarah Lee."

Millikin, 21, from Reno, Nev., and Alexander, 23, from Wetumpka, Ala., quickly made the adjustments. They are good at what they do.

"Gun up!" Millikin yelled when they finished a few seconds later, grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube.

"Fire!" Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it.

The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call "shake 'n' bake" into a cluster of buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week.

They say they have never seen what they've hit, nor did they talk about it as they dusted off their breakfast and continued their hilarious routine of personal insults and name-calling.

So who you gonna believe? The US Department of Defense or the US Army and the US Marine Corps? Decisions, decisions . . .

From the US Department of Health and Human Services:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts103.html

September 1997
ToxFAQsâ„¢
for
White Phosphorus
(Fósforo Blanco)

CAS# 7723-14-0

This fact sheet answers the most frequently asked health questions about white phosphorus. For more information, you may call the ATSDR Information Center at 1-888-422-8737. This fact sheet is one in a series of summaries about hazardous substances and their health effects. This information is important because this substance may harm you. The effects of exposure to any hazardous substance depend on the dose, the duration, how you are exposed, personal traits and habits, and whether other chemicals are present.
HIGHLIGHTS: White phosphorus is a waxy solid which burns easily and is used in chemical manufacturing and smoke munitions. Exposure to white phosphorus may cause burns and irritation, liver, kidney, heart, lung, or bone damage, and death. White phosphorus has been found in at least 77 of the 1,416 National Priorities List sites identified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

What is white phosphorus?

White phosphorus is a colorless, white, or yellow waxy solid with a garlic-like odor. It does not occur naturally, but is manufactured from phosphate rocks.

White phosphorus reacts rapidly with oxygen, easily catching fire at temperatures 10 to 15 degrees above room temperature.

White phosphorus is used by the military in various types of ammunition, and to produce smoke for concealing troop movements and identifying targets.

It is also used by industry to produce phosphoric acid and other chemicals for use in fertilizers, food additives, and cleaning compounds. Small amounts of white phosphorus were used in the past in pesticides and fireworks.
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What happens to white phosphorus when it enters the environment?

* White phosphorus can enter the environment when it is made, used in manufacturing or by the military, or accidentally spilled during transport and storage.
* It can be found in the water and bottom sediment of rivers and lakes near facilities that make or use it.
* In the air, white phosphorus reacts rapidly with oxygen to produce relatively harmless chemicals within minutes.
* In water, white phosphorus reacts with oxygen within hours or days.
* In water with low oxygen, white phosphorus may degrade to a highly toxic compound called phosphine, which eventually evaporates to the air and is changed to less harmful chemicals.
* White phosphorus can build up slightly in the bodies of fish that live in contaminated lakes or streams.
* In soil, white phosphorus may stick to particles and be changed within a few days to less harmful compounds.
* In deep soil or sediments with little oxygen, white phosphorus may remain unchanged for many years.

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How might I be exposed to white phosphorus?

* Breathing contaminated air near a facility that is using white phosphorus.
* Eating contaminated fish or game birds from sites containing white phosphorus.
* Drinking or swimming in water that has been contaminated with white phosphorus.
* Touching soil contaminated with white phosphorus.
* If you work in industries that use or manufacture white phosphorus or munitions containing white phosphorus.

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How can white phosphorus affect my health?

Little information is available about the health effects that may be caused by white phosphorus. Most of what is known about the effects of breathing white phosphorus is from studies of workers. Most of what is known about the effects of eating white phosphorus is from reports of people eating rat poison or fireworks that contained it.

Breathing white phosphorus for short periods may cause coughing and irritation of the throat and lungs. Breathing white phosphorus for long periods may cause a condition known as "phossy jaw" which involves poor wound healing of the mouth and breakdown of the jaw bone.

Eating or drinking small amounts of white phosphorus may cause liver, heart, or kidney damage, vomiting, stomach cramps, drowsiness, or death. We do not know what the effects are from eating or drinking very small amounts of white phosphorus-containing substances over long periods of time. Skin contact with burning white phosphorus may burn skin or cause liver, heart, and kidney damage.

We do not know whether or not white phosphorus can affect the ability to have children or cause birth defects in people.
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How likely is white phosphorus to cause cancer?

The EPA has determined that white phosphorus is not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity in humans. There are no studies available in people or animals that suggest white phosphorus causes cancer.
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Is there a medical test to show whether I've been exposed to white phosphorus?

There is no medical test that shows if you have been exposed to white phosphorus. However, the above health effects may lead your doctor to suspect that you have been exposed if you have a history of exposure.
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Has the federal government made recommendations to protect human health?

The EPA has listed white phosphorus as a Hazardous Air Pollutant. The EPA requires that spills or accidental releases into the environment of 1 pound or more of white phosphorus be reported to the EPA.

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), and the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) have all set the inhalation exposure limit for white phosphorus in the workplace during an 8-hour workday at 0.1 milligram of white phosphorus per cubic meter of air (0.1 mg/m³).
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Glossary

Carcinogenicity: Ability to cause cancer.

CAS: Chemical Abstracts Service.

Evaporate: To change into a vapor or gas.

Milligram (mg): One thousandth of a gram.

Sediment: Mud and debris that have settled to the bottom of a body of water.
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References

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). 1997. Toxicological Profile for white phosphorus. Atlanta, GA: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service.
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Where can I get more information?

ATSDR can tell you where to find occupational and environmental health clinics. Their specialists can recognize, evaluate, and treat illnesses resulting from exposure to hazardous substances. You can also contact your community or state health or environmental quality department if you have any more questions or concerns.

For more information, contact:

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
Division of Toxicology
1600 Clifton Road NE, Mailstop F-32
Atlanta, GA 30333
Phone: 1-888-42-ATSDR (1-888-422-8737)
FAX: (770)-488-4178
Email: ATSDRIC@cdc.gov

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[Drake Tungsten]

ZOMFG! The US is using teh chemical weapons!

[DRoseDARs]

ZOMFG not really. Seems to be mostly hyperbole at best, misuse of legal ordinance at worst.

[Drake Tungsten]

That's not fair. You can't link to Kos and then say something reasonable. It's confusing.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
That's not fair. You can't link to Kos and then say something reasonable. It's confusing.

ZOMFG! Your brain is going to explode!

[binTravkin]

Though I have to say, nothing surprises me now considering the crap we have done up to this point.

Nerve gas anyone..?

Seems to be mostly hyperbole at best, misuse of legal ordinance at worst.

ZOMFG, how bout I deliver you some of that?

Mart7x5

this is not an objective look at US policy in Iraq...

it is propaganda designed to shock the audience into thinking the US eats babies...