Bush Administration wants an exception for CIA to commit torture

[SpencerH]

Thanks, I've seen it many times. Aside from that he was a self-important *****, what he did wrong was to allow his soldiers to take the fall. I suppose in that respect he was a villain to me but I'd guess that's not why you're calling him a villain.

[Cyclotron]

That was a reason, but it wasn't the only reason.

To protect a system of good, Jack's character was prepared to do evil - and he thought it preposterous that others would question the morality of doing evil when they, in fact, relied on that protected system to live their lives. The problem is that, what he was protecting consisted of a moral code, and he was breaking it - morals are not a "sometimes" pursuit, that we can apply to ourselves and keep from others. We cannot in good conscience inflict injuries on others for the purpose of protecting ourselves from those injuries - to do so turns noble morality into a base promotion of some of us over the rest of us. A liberty gained at the expense of others -by profiting from the pain and death of others - is nothing more than an empty phrase.

[DAVOUT]

Cyclotron expresses a very mature idea of what honour really is.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sikander


If it's systematic why were people treated very differently on the night shift at Abu Graib than at other times? Why were some prisoners beaten to death by the Seals while others were not? These weren't distinctions in treatment decided by a field manual or by a secret policy written by Dick Cheney, they are random variations on what has been so far as embarrassingly un-systematic policy as possible.

"Systematic" doesn't just mean events that are explictly prescribed by leadership. Systematic abuse can also result from implicit conditions setup by the irresponsible leadership, who set the conditions for allowing certain lines to be crossed, which is exactly what happened in this case.

It's a don't ask don't tell policy with an implicit result that masks an explicit motive. Except alot of us can see right through it. Powell and his staff warned the White House repeatedly to not go down this path. Now McCain is doing the same thing.

Should I print the rest of the lyrics, or do you understand that a bill is a proposed law and not a law itself.

Yeah right. Your whole theory depends on them just inserting this rider just to weaken the bill. You have way too much faith in them. They want to change the law, they already HAVE a long history of establishing legal precedents on how to avoid the Geneva Conventions.

Which is why they have so much to do with this conversation, considering the amount of time and effort the White House legal staff has invested in getting around the Conventions.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by SpencerH
He wasnt a villain to me.

Frankly that statement is frightening

[Drake Tungsten]

He wasnt a villain to me.

The fact that Jack's character wasn't obviously in the wrong is what made the movie good.

[Alexander's Horse]

here's a big opportunity for Europe to repair their relations with the USA - send the US the instruments of torture and let all those guys who used to work for Stasi and the KGB go to the USA. Its a win/win situation I tell you.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
That was a reason, but it wasn't the only reason.

To protect a system of good, Jack's character was prepared to do evil - and he thought it preposterous that others would question the morality of doing evil when they, in fact, relied on that protected system to live their lives. The problem is that, what he was protecting consisted of a moral code, and he was breaking it - morals are not a "sometimes" pursuit, that we can apply to ourselves and keep from others. We cannot in good conscience inflict injuries on others for the purpose of protecting ourselves from those injuries - to do so turns noble morality into a base promotion of some of us over the rest of us. A liberty gained at the expense of others -by profiting from the pain and death of others - is nothing more than an empty phrase.

One of the the best summaries on the topic ever written.



Cyclotron for President

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
here's a big opportunity for Europe to repair their relations with the USA - send the US the instruments of torture and let all those guys who used to work for Stasi and the KGB go to the USA. Its a win/win situation I tell you.

There is a former Stasi head working for us somewhere but I can't remember where. Seriously.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Cyclotron for President

But you know I couldn't win against the Ted Striker, now could I?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Cyclotron


But you know I couldn't win against the Ted Striker, now could I?

No, the American people will always side with the stupider candidate.

[Cyclotron]

Thanks, Sikander. Maybe I do have a chance in politics.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

"Systematic" doesn't just mean events that are explictly prescribed by leadership. Systematic abuse can also result from implicit conditions setup by the irresponsible leadership, who set the conditions for allowing certain lines to be crossed, which is exactly what happened in this case.

It's a don't ask don't tell policy with an implicit result that masks an explicit motive. Except alot of us can see right through it. Powell and his staff warned the White House repeatedly to not go down this path. Now McCain is doing the same thing.

From Dictionary.com:

systematic

adj 1: characterized by order and planning; "the investigation was very systematic"; "a systematic administrator" [ant: unsystematic] 2: not haphazard; "a series of orderly actions at regular hours" [syn: orderly]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Yeah right. Your whole theory depends on them just inserting this rider just to weaken the bill. You have way too much faith in them. They want to change the law, they already HAVE a long history of establishing legal precedents on how to avoid the Geneva Conventions.

Which is why they have so much to do with this conversation, considering the amount of time and effort the White House legal staff has invested in getting around the Conventions.

No need to rebut, as your remarks here are incomprehensible.

[Drake Tungsten]

An all too common occurence.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sikander

From Dictionary.com:

systematic

adj 1: characterized by order and planning; "the investigation was very systematic"; "a systematic administrator" [ant: unsystematic] 2: not haphazard; "a series of orderly actions at regular hours" [syn: orderly]

Nice try. That was the SECOND definition listed. Meaning the LESS COMMON version. The FIRST definition listed was:

1. Of, characterized by, based on, or constituting a system.

So then we go on to SYSTEM:

1. A group of interacting, interrelated, or interdependent elements forming a complex whole.
2. A functionally related group of elements,

No need to rebut, as your remarks here are incomprehensible.

Can't help that it's over your head.

Point stands, the top down allowance of these Geneva Convention violations, allows interrogators at EVERY LEVEL, in EVERY BRANCH of government (ZOMG teh system), civilian and domestic, to do a bunch of stupid things like torture people.