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  • #91
    Bump for the morning crowd.

    My thesis stands. We know how much that death and injury costs society within a reasonable degree of precision. And we have what I think is relatively cheap and workable technology to reduce greatly or eliminate outright this cost -- the car driving itself, or autodrive.

    A parrallel problem is traffic congestion and time devoted to driving. Autodrive would drastically reduce congestion and would reduce and eventually eliminate time devoted to driving.
    Last edited by DanS; October 17, 2005, 09:54.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #92
      Originally posted by DanS
      I was inspired. Those vehicles drove themselves over a complex course for over 100 miles, with investments only in the low single digit millions of dollars.
      if only everyone had millions to throw at an automatic car that can be pre scripted to follow a single course.

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      • #93
        Following a pre-scripted course is a luxury of autodrive. Most of our transportation happens along well-worn paths.
        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Kuciwalker


          Unless the amount resources devoted towards producing those more efficient vehicles is greater than the amount of resources conserved in their operation.
          Not in the long run...
          And you also forget that if all cars are driving themselves, they can talk to each other making the list of unknown moving objets in the vicinity very small...

          By the way some places already have vehicule that follow a lead vehicule by themselves in a big file, and car makers have prototypes of cars that could go in a reserved lane on a highway and drive themselve...

          So all your moaning that this is science fiction and cost\benefit analysis is totally off.


          As Dans said, if you start by using reserved roads on highway, then the conditions are much easier but still a major convenience for many people, and it helps absorbs the cost of further development.
          Last edited by Lul Thyme; October 17, 2005, 13:22.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Whoha

            if only everyone had millions to throw at an automatic car that can be pre scripted to follow a single course.
            You do know that development in anything cost money?

            Automatic shifting in car etc??
            Air bags?
            New types of tires?

            All these cost million to develop?

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            • #96
              Not in the long run...
              And you also forget that if all cars are driving themselves, they can talk to each other making the list of unknown moving objets in the vicinity very small...


              I'm ignoring that suggestion because it's not going to happen soon. I'm talking about hybrids. And as I said earlier, the last study I saw said it would take something like 15 years to recoup the extra costs of getting a hybrid from lower gas costs.

              By the way some places already have vehicule that follow a lead vehicule by themselves in a big file, and car makers have prototypes of cars that could go in a reserved lane on a highway and drive themselve...


              The issue is playing nice with non-automated cars, which has to be solved if you don't want to somehow build an entire alternate road system. Then there's the fact that all those cars you mentioned are traveling along the same path, not different paths...

              So all your moaning that this is science fiction and cost\benefit analysis is totally off.


              Except that DanS' whole inspiration is the DARPA Challenge which is a very different problem than autodriving commuter cars.

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              • #97
                As Dans said, if you start by using reserved roads on highway, then the conditions are much easier but still a major convenience for many people, and it helps absorbs the cost of further development.


                To get onto a reserved road you need to go through non-reserved roads.

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                • #98
                  I remember reading an article in AAA about 5 years ago about some organization that had actually tested the very thing you are talking about DanS, where they took a group of 10 cars and autodrove them on a test road.

                  I don't remember the results or whatever happened to it. This one had the specific goal of reducing freeway congestion.

                  So, it's not the first time something like this has been put out there.

                  What is true, no matter how you look at it, is that our freeways have reached critical mass, and we need to start thinking of new ways of doing things, instead of the same old thing for the past 50 years.
                  We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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                  • #99
                    I don't think reserved roads are needed. We have lots more computing power available now versus even 5 years ago.

                    I'm talking about hybrids. And as I said earlier, the last study I saw said it would take something like 15 years to recoup the extra costs of getting a hybrid from lower gas costs.
                    And the reason is because the capacity for parts necessary for hybrids is not large enough to drive down costs through scale. But you could still make the argument that people are buying into the idea of hybrids, knowing full well that this hybrid purchase, as well as those in the future at lower prices when there is plenty of capacity for those parts, together will make good financial sense overall.

                    I cannot bring myself to criticize this kind of financial/benefit calculation.
                    Last edited by DanS; October 17, 2005, 14:33.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #100
                      By the way some places already have vehicule that follow a lead vehicule by themselves in a big file, and car makers have prototypes of cars that could go in a reserved lane on a highway and drive themselve...
                      As I understand, they are already using these follow-the-leader systems in a small number of Iraq supply convoys. I would guess that using them in some capacity on the freeways isn't far behind.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                      Comment

                      • #101
                        Originally posted by DanS
                        And the reason is because the capacity for parts necessary for hybrids is not large enough to drive down costs through scale. But you could still make the argument that people are buying into the idea of hybrids, knowing full well that this hybrid purchase, as well as those in the future at lower prices when there is plenty of capacity for those parts, together will make good financial sense overall.

                        I cannot bring myself to criticize this kind of financial/benefit calculation.
                        The reason hybrid purchases make sense for the economy as a whole (though not individually) is because it drives down production costs of future hybrids and helps establish a resource-saving industry.

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                        • #102
                          Originally posted by DanS
                          As I understand, they are already using these follow-the-leader systems in a small number of Iraq supply convoys. I would guess that using them in some capacity on the freeways isn't far behind.


                          There's no relation between the two! They're entirely different goals! The military wants unmanned supply routes because people are expensive monetarily and politically and a computer-driven car is far more expendable and easier to deploy.

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                          • #103


                            The goals are similar and the technology is the same or closely related.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                            • #104
                              I actually have a friend who worked on one of the teams at the DARPA challenge - he did a lot of programming for their LIDAR. He went there for the race. I've PMed you his contact info if you're interested (he happens to agree with me )

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                              • #105
                                OK, I invited him to a little chat.
                                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                                Comment

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