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Why does Ken Livingstone choose to make an issue of it, what a pillock!
Clearly a man with no sense of choosing those battles that he can win
Clearly a man with no sense of choosing those battles that he can win
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Its not a tax for god's sake, its a toll. There is a difference! Here in NYc we have a hard time getting all those diplomats to pay the parking charges they owe the City. I say let London screw the embassy...damn diplomats screwing the rest of the city residents
If you don't like reality, change it! me
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"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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GePap
Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda SmithComment
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I believe key-features of a tax is that it's involuntarily, and that there's no direct connection between the tax and the services/goods the government provides in return. A charge is something pay for a service/good you're using voluntarily and which covers the costs of that service/good.
It seems a bit tricky here: while the diplomats arguably are using the roads voluntarily, I believe the toll receipts are being used for public transit, which would make it a tax.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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Ken Livingstone is an idiot. He should leave it to diplomats to deal with foreign diplomatic representatives.
This happened 3½ moinths ago, and it becomes a public issue now, why?Comment
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Roo? That's not the way it works on this side of the pond. They tax plane tickets to provide the airports. They add a 9/11 tax for extra plane security. They tax the gasoline to provide the highways and mass transit, etc. The more direct the connection between the tax and the use the better.I believe key-features of a tax is that it's involuntarily, and that there's no direct connection between the tax and the services/goods the government provides in return.
Really, they're trying to make a distinction where there's no difference. A government fee is a tax. Doesn't matter whether it's a use tax or a general tax.Last edited by DanS; October 16, 2005, 20:50.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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If you pay tax on gasoline, is that tax used to cover the costs of providing you with gasoline? That would be a direct connection between the money you're paying and the prestation you're receiving in return.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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"prestation"?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Don't try to overlawyer this, colon. The use of the gasoline is being taxed and the highways are directly tied to that use of gasoline.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Good/services. Your crippled language doesn't allow for a proper term.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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Highways and gasoline are different goods. You don't need to be a lawyer to realise this.Originally posted by DanS
Don't try to overlawyer this, colon. The use of the gasoline is being taxed and the highways are directly tied to that use of gasoline.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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It's a strained distinction. The use of gasoline and the use of highways are the same process.
That is, unless you're using a lawn mower.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Livingstone
The diplomats are not forced to pay the toll in any way (since they aren't forced to use their car). If they want to use, their car, they pay the damn fee
What next, will they refuse to pay their plane ticket?
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It's not. It's not just because the receiver is the state that is a tax. You wouldn't call the tickets a state-owned airlines sells a tax either for instance. The government sometimes asks money in return for services in similar vein the private sector does, and those are differentiated from taxes based on the criteria I mentioned above.Originally posted by DanS
It's a strained distinction. The use of gasoline and the use of highways are the same process.
That is, unless you're using a lawn mower.
The problem here is (if I recall correctly) that Livingstone has not been using the receipts to cover the costs of the service he's providing, but rather for public transit.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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We only do not do so because of convention, not because there is any real difference.You wouldn't call the tickets a state-owned airlines sells a tax either for instance.
Limited congestion is a part of the service that the city is providing. They tax the use of the highways in the area in order to provide the service. Mass transit helps the city provide this service in an appropriate manner.The problem here is (if I recall correctly) that Livingstone has not been using the receipts to cover the costs of the service he's providing, but rather for public transit.
I would prefer other methods of providing the service than what Red Ken Livingston is using, and there should be some "market price" set for the tax, but it's still a rather direct linkage and its still a tax.
You may remember that my beef with extreme gasoline taxes in Europe is that the tax is unrelated to the activity involved. So it's not like it's an issue to which I'm insensitive.Last edited by DanS; October 16, 2005, 21:42.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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