What the hell is Er Guo Tou Chiew made out of?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Calm down, Chink.

Shut up, gweilo.

[Q Classic]

Well, it's nice to know that my attempts to take back and redefine the words chink and gook are starting to work, since UR doesn't find them slurs at all!

Since I've seen such great results, maybe I should expand my client base to the words sp*c and n*gger!

Results in a few months, or your money back!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Well, it's nice to know that my attempts to take back and redefine the words chink and gook are starting to work, since UR doesn't find them slurs at all!

He'd have a hard time justifying the ban after going on about how calling black people monkeys isn't a slur.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
He'd have a hard time justifying the ban after going on about how calling black people monkeys isn't a slur.

I'm trying to figure out what black person wouldn't be offended at being called ape/primate/monkey/gorilla.

Maybe if I do it in song, like Borat:
"In my country there is problem, and that problem is the Jew..."

[mrmitchell]

thanks UR, i found a new sig

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Describe to me why it is.

It is, if you believe those statements not to be racist. Do you really think that equating someone with an animal is a polite thing to do? Chinese people, often publicly, pick lice out of eachothers hair. Can I now start saying that they are all chimps? That fact that you don't realize how racist your statements is the real problem. As mindseye pointed out, it is the reason that racism is so bad in China.

It reminds me of a class of Chinese students who were asked if they would marry a white person. A few of them said they would, fine, but still odd that they need to think in those terms and that it mattered so much. Then they were asked if they would marry a black person. Not one of them. One of the reasons given was that they were afraid that if their black spouse ate chocolate he would eat his own fingers.

I have a black coworker from Zimbabwe. He is very skilled and knowledgable at what he does. However, he and his friends will immediately leave China once they're finished studying there because of the daily racism they experience there. I was there when he was refused a promised research position at the hospital when the director first saw him. The same position that I was offered, but refused for a better one, despite having less knowledge and experience in the field than him.

Of course you can. You can attest to almost anything. Quite supernatural really.

First, strawman. The fact is that people are offended by the racist terms you claim to use so casually.

Second, do you even know what attest means?

As I said...

As you said, what? You prior thread was racist garbage. Anything you've said is another attempt to avoid the issue.

What did I say is racist? Where and when did I say it?

Let's see the thread discussing Japan. The thread discussing prostitution in south east asia. Let's not forget this thread, of which there is now no doubt.

So UR, what is Che's wife, an ape/primate/monkey/gorilla? How about the other black people on this forum? Or are there any others given the attitude of a mod here?

Let's look back at your responses for anything substantial. Nope, not a thing. All thoughtless one-line evasive remarks. The defense of a racist!

[Mao]

tsk tsk tsk DaShi...don't you know the heirarchy of races? You've been in China so long and you still don't know...*sigh*

On top are obviously the Chinese, because, well, they're just the best. Ever. Period.
Right below them are whites/lesser Asians.
Far below them are Black people.
FAR FAR FAR below them, subterrainean even, are the Japanese.

And all the other ethnicities are somewhere in between there.

Seriously though, the problem of racism in China isn't anything new I would think. I would think that's it's actually common in any homogeneous society, or even one that isn't so homogeneous (there's enough racism between the Han and various minorities...). Yeah yeah, you dislike Han, but I've yet to see any other alternative (I'm actually kinda curious if there is one...). Besides, the term did it's job pretty well, didn't it? Dr. Sun would be proud...

As to daily racism...well...this racism is a collateral effect (or maybe it's not and racism is the main cause and the following is a collateral effect, not sure of the causality here) of the uber-patriotism that Chinese society (moreso than the government itself I would argue) encourages. I mean, I'm sure you've encountered this. When asked why people work, many don't just say, "oh, for my family, so I can have a good life, etc." but rather also add "for China. So we can develop and be strong. So we can modernize." This sense of uber-nationalism, jingoism almost, is actually a bit scary, but works perfectly for the Beijing government, doesn't it? See? Everyone's happy in the end, and the casualties are (once again...) Black people... *sigh* Although, to be fair, I don't think anyone's really claimed racism wasn't a problem in China, even the government...

More randomly, about the '87 movement: Yeah, it's kinda sad that more people don't know about it and it so quickly got overshadowed by the '89 movement. But it's a great lesson in Chinese demonstrations: DON'T PLAN YOUR DEMONSTRATIONS DURING HOLIDAYS BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL JUST GO HOME!!!

[Spiffor]

I have the impressilon that you lash out all your frustrations over China on UR alone, Tingkai. Yet, considering your description of the China, I would think of UR as fairly more open-minded than the average Chinese (or at least, the awy you depict the average Chinese).

Why are you always so personal against him?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I have the impressilon that you lash out all your frustrations over China on UR alone, Tingkai. Yet, considering your description of the China, I would think of UR as fairly more open-minded than the average Chinese (or at least, the awy you depict the average Chinese).

Why are you always so personal against him?

The problem with UR is that he posts untruths and racists comments and tries to get away with it by never responding to the issue directly or throwing insults at those who challenge him. UR and I have very opposed beliefs on many things. However, where he just makes up facts, I present them only to have to deal with a litany of insults. Overtime I just grew tired of being polite to him. In fact, I used to rarely discuss anything with him, until he started trolling my threads and doing driveby postings against me. Lately, I guess I've just begun fighting back. Plus, it's nice to have a mod who can be a punching bag.

I'll say that Tingkai is a bit more coherent, but he loses his cool quickly which descends what I thought start as reasonable debates into insults. The problem with both is that they can't really support their arguments and have to fall back to the insults and evasive tactics (which are so simplistic, they're insulting in themselves). I've told UR time and again, I'd love to have a reasonable debate with him. Today, however, he's gone too far, and I've tried my best to be polite.

UR also represents some of the worst characteristics of modern China. The biased opinions of things he is ignorant on. The clueless racism. The overt nationalism that defies logic. Basically, he's a Chinese republican. Perhaps I do take it out a bit on him. I saw all this with my college students, but I couldn't challenge them heavily on it for fear of losing my job.

I'm not sure what you mean by my description of China. Usually the examples I've seen of bad things come out just to challenge UR's claims that there are no such things in China. Outside of UR 'debates', I've always tried to be fair while bringing important issues to light.

UR is not open-minded, especially for a Chinese person. As I said, he represents the rising attitudes of the young people here. A lot of my closest Chinese friends are such because of their open-mindedness. I appreciate their candor on issues foreign and domestic and our debates never descend into insults. But these people tend to be older and more experienced. Although UR has travelled someone, he seems to have done it through nationlist eyes. Like the CCP articles of Chinese people who travel abroad complaining about how unChinese foriegn countries are.

Anyway, I'll try to post an article written here that interviews some regular Chinese people in Hangzhou. It's quite good.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Mao
Although, to be fair, I don't think anyone's really claimed racism wasn't a problem in China, even the government...

Really? Ask around. I think that most Chinese people are taught what to say to foreigners when asked certain questions. "Did China ever start a war?" "No, never." "Is there racism in China?" "No." "What do you think of Mao?" "Great Chinese leader." Now, I doubt that many of them actually believe it. My fear is that younger generation do, because that's all they've been exposed to.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I have the impressilon that you lash out all your frustrations over China on UR alone, Tingkai. Yet, considering your description of the China, I would think of UR as fairly more open-minded than the average Chinese (or at least, the awy you depict the average Chinese).

Why are you always so personal against him?

Oh, and do you ask everyone who criticizes America these questions? Because everytime I say something that slightly criticizes China, I have to defend myself as if the country is some holy child that must be protected. So I'll state it simply here:

1. China is not an evil country, but it does do evil things.

2. Since I live in China, I am interested in it and its development.

3. Actually, I rarely criticize China unless someone posts something that is contrary to what actually occurs.

4. I do post threads that discuss issues in China that may not paint it in a favorable light, but I do encourage the fair discussion of both sides of the issue.

5. Pardon me, if I'm sick of this crap.

6. How about discussing the topic now?

[Seeker]

speaking of derogatory asian words, 'gook' is kinda funny since it is so obviously just a misunderstanding of the korean ending word for 'person'. In a way we're ALL 'gooks' (meegook, chunggook, hangook=american, chinese, korean).

What is that great korean term that is equivalent to Japanese 'Iteki'? It means something like 'outer barbarian' or 'very primitive person'.

I used to love to tell my students I was their 'barbarian teacher' and bring in pictures of 'braveheart' style celts and germans as 'pictures of typical canadians'.

[DaShi]

That's one of the things I hated about teaching. Having to put on those kinds of performances to win them over. I didn't do that for one semester and treated the class like an American college course, and they all complained until the school made me change.

Well, when I go back to America, I should call the overseas Chinese there laowai.

[Mao]

Originally posted by DaShi


Really? Ask around. I think that most Chinese people are taught what to say to foreigners when asked certain questions. "Did China ever start a war?" "No, never." "Is there racism in China?" "No." "What do you think of Mao?" "Great Chinese leader." Now, I doubt that many of them actually believe it. My fear is that younger generation do, because that's all they've been exposed to.

Hmmm...they probably are taught those things. Some, however, like "Did China ever start a war?" I find hard to blame the students themselves, since that's what they're taught and have little access to other information. Like you said, that's all they've been exposed to. The racism question is somewhat...I dunno...how do they define racism? I know some have the impression that there's no racism unless we literally lynch Black people from trees a la the American south. It's just so normal sometimes that they don't even consider it anything out of the ordinary. To be fair, this exists too in America and many Americans also claim racism isn't a problem (the difference here is probably degree, but there are some striking similarities). As to Mao, some actually believe that. Hell, even I believe it. It really depends how you phrase "great," of course, but he did do a lot of great things for China. In the end, however, he cancels out a lot of the good things he did, sad really.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

How is calling somebody a gorilla the same as equating him with a primate? According to which authoritative source?

Just because a term is slang does not make it a racial slur.

Well, that seems obvious, but I hope you are not denying that some slang is racist. I should also hope it's obvious that when a slang term with negative connotations is used exclusively for members of a single race, then it is very likely racist.

For example, I have never heard of a Chinese person calling a Japanese a "gorilla" - only black people are referred to in this way.

If a person uses a term without the intent of racism, I can't see how you can call that as racism.

It might not be as overt as cross-burning, but the fact that the person at some point made a decision that some clearly negative term, say "wetback", was an acceptable way to refer to Mexicans indicates some level of negative stereotyping of Mexicans.

Further, most people who use racist language also realize it's wrong, and would not use it in "polite company" or when in the presence of a member of that race. Their knowledge that it's objectionable speaks volumes about their awareness of the connotations.

For example, few Chinese who refer to blacks as "gorillas" would ever use that term directly to a black person's face.