CIA worked in tandem with Pakistan to create Taliban.

[chequita guevara]

When over ten million a year die in the capitalist world because of easily preventable disease and famine, simply because it isn't profitable to save them, capitalism easily beats the killing fields, the Great Leap Forward, and Stalin's collectivization.

As far as Hitler is concerned, the capitalists put him in charge of Germany, and even if they didn't get what they expected, they must bear the responsibility. In any event, since private property and ,arket (regardless of how unfree it may have been) were the methods by which commodities were produced, exchanged, and wealth generated, Nazi Germany was still a capitalist country.

And capitalism predate 1750 by quite a bit. Sure, it wasn't laizze faire industrial capitalism, but the underlying laws of economics were the same.

[:) Smiley]

An agency that fights terrorism creating new terrorist organizations... now that's what's called job security.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Saras


Oh, the free trade of goods and services, protection of property, that sort of thing, is deadly in hot climates? Wow!

or that the abuse of formentioned things are creating said "hot climate"

[Saras]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
When over ten million a year die in the capitalist world because of easily preventable disease and famine, simply because it isn't profitable to save them, capitalism easily beats the killing fields, the Great Leap Forward, and Stalin's collectivization.

People are miraculously immune to easily preventable diseases in communist countries?

As far as Hitler is concerned, the capitalists put him in charge of Germany, and even if they didn't get what they expected, they must bear the responsibility. In any event, since private property and ,arket (regardless of how unfree it may have been) were the methods by which commodities were produced, exchanged, and wealth generated, Nazi Germany was still a capitalist country.

Try setting up a Kosher burger chain in Nuremberg in 1939.

And capitalism predate 1750 by quite a bit. Sure, it wasn't laizze faire industrial capitalism, but the underlying laws of economics were the same.

The laws of people wanting something and others wanting to give them that something for something in return? Why, that was in place since Uggh and Oggh traded some nuts for some fish.

[Dinner]

Sava, yeah the outsiders did throw a lot of arms at the waring parties. The US and USSR loved to do that since they had lots of arms on hand anyway so it was easier then giving money. To say that Cold War proxy wars were solely the result of Capitalism though is a big stretch.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Sava, yeah the outsiders did throw a lot of arms at the waring parties. The US and USSR loved to do that since they had lots of arms on hand anyway so it was easier then giving money. To say that Cold War proxy wars were solely the result of Capitalism though is a big stretch.

never said "solely" the result...

it is a result...

one of many causes...

one thing is for sure though... current neo-liberal economic policies are part of the problem... (in regards to Africa)

and we haven't even gotten into the AIDS crisis yet and how pharmaceutical companies are fighting to prevent cheap generic AIDS drugs out of Africa

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Saras
People are miraculously immune to easily preventable diseases in communist countries?

How many babies died of the common cold in the USSR? That is the number one killer of infants in the world. The cold causes diarhea, which leads to dehydration, and then death. A little bit of sugar water or saline solution, pennies per baby, is all that it takes to stop this. Even children in 3rd world socialist countries like Cuba don't die this way.

Try setting up a Kosher burger chain in Nuremberg in 1939.

And you think this proves what? Judaism was oppressed. But you could set up a regular burger chain with no problem. You think that capitalism is incapable of discrimination? You think the U.S. wasn't capitalist for the seventy years we lived under the rule of Jim Crow?

And capitalism predate 1750 by quite a bit. Sure, it wasn't laizze faire industrial capitalism, but the underlying laws of economics were the same.

The laws of people wanting something and others wanting to give them that something for something in return? Why, that was in place since Uggh and Oggh traded some nuts for some fish.

Simple trade isn't capitalism. Merchatilism was far more advanced than trading one thing for another. Commodities were produced not for getting equal exchange, as in your example, but to make a profit. That is the fundimental nature of capitalism.

[Saras]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Simple trade isn't capitalism. Merchatilism was far more advanced than trading one thing for another. Commodities were produced not for getting equal exchange, as in your example, but to make a profit. That is the fundimental nature of capitalism.

This is just a TOO GOOD illustration that your notions of exchange and profit and trade are not related to the real world of human interaction.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sava
never said "solely" the result...

it is a result...

one of many causes...

one thing is for sure though... current neo-liberal economic policies are part of the problem... (in regards to Africa)

and we haven't even gotten into the AIDS crisis yet and how pharmaceutical companies are fighting to prevent cheap generic AIDS drugs out of Africa

Hmm, ok. Then we are in agreement over Africa. The biggest problem Africa has is that it's goods are either tarrifed off wold markets or else have to compete against subsidized goods from the first world. The rich countries don't want Africa's agricultural goods and they don't want to open free trade with Africa since cheaper African workers will out produce them. So all Africa can really sell is raw materials which have big bomb and bust cycles in pice and demand. The bad government policies and lack of creativity among the ruling elite are also major problems.

Africa isn't going to get major market access soon and the first world isn't going to stop the agricultural subsidies so Africa needs to turn towards internal development to attract capital the way Asia has. The individual countries have markets to small to justify setting up factories so they need to create large free trade zones like Europe, North America, and South America have done. Next they need to consentrate on infastruction to connect all the major cities and education so their people aren't all illiterate. That will go a long way towards solving the problems.

Of course it is hard to convince a military dictator not to spend money on the military since that's how he keeps his strangle hold on the country. Most of Africa can't make the jump to democracy since that would just result in chaos and civil war in most cases so the best option is a bunch of progressive dictators not bent solely on loot and plunder. Something like ASEAN's non-democratic states.

[Saras]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
How many babies died of the common cold in the USSR? That is the number one killer of infants in the world. The cold causes diarhea, which leads to dehydration, and then death. A little bit of sugar water or saline solution, pennies per baby, is all that it takes to stop this. Even children in 3rd world socialist countries like Cuba don't die this way.

How is this related to capitalism as a system per se killing people? Communists, on the other hand, fired actual rifles at actual heads and shipped actual people to chop actual wood north of Arkhangelsk.

And you think this proves what? Judaism was oppressed. But you could set up a regular burger chain with no problem. You think that capitalism is incapable of discrimination? You think the U.S. wasn't capitalist for the seventy years we lived under the rule of Jim Crow?

This proves that there was not a free market syetem in Nazi Germany, ergo, not capitalist. I know you'll never admit this, it's just too convenient to keep your opponents in the same group with nazis, whatever the criterion.

[MrFun]

Save the capitalist babies!!!!!!!!!!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Saras
This is just a TOO GOOD illustration that your notions of exchange and profit and trade are not related to the real world of human interaction.

What's funnier is you looking at the people around you and thinking this is the way people must always have been, even though history, sociology, anthorpology, archaeology all say differently.

[vomitus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Capitalism killed far more. If the Commies killed 100 million in a century, and that makes us bad, what does it say about your side when you kill over a hundred million a decade?

That's crap. In a century capitalism kills a billion people? Where'd you get this number of a hundred million in a decade?

The number of people killed by communists (people you support) is a bit higher than 100 million, but I just rounded the figure.

Note that I didn't support capitalism in my previous post. I wasn't arguing about the ills of capitalism. However, you are still supporting the policies and actions of mass murderers in the 20th century.

Communism is bad for so many reasons. Communists want not to simply change an economy but rather a society. Traditionally (and still today), that change is brought about by murder.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Saras
How is this related to capitalism as a system per se killing people? Communists, on the other hand, fired actual rifles at actual heads and shipped actual people to chop actual wood north of Arkhangelsk.

Capitalism allows people to die by the millions each year because the people running society want to make a profit. Also, capitalist goons are just as capable of firing actual rifles at actual heads. The histories of Latin America, Africa, Europe, the United States, and Asia are a testament to the complete willingness of capitalists to slaughter millions for money. And frankly, I don't think it matters a whit of difference if you are killed because some Communist thug shoots you in the head or because some capitalist steals your land and you starve to death. The end result is the same. You died because of someone else.

And you think this proves what? Judaism was oppressed. But you could set up a regular burger chain with no problem. You think that capitalism is incapable of discrimination? You think the U.S. wasn't capitalist for the seventy years we lived under the rule of Jim Crow?

This proves that there was not a free market syetem in Nazi Germany, ergo, not capitalist.

Then I guess the U.S. was never capitalist, since African-Americans were excluded from the market by law until the 1960s, and since then, no one can seriously claim the U.S. has had a free market. In other words, your claim that a free market is what defines capitalism is just pure BS. There has never been a free market in capitalism.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by vomitus
However, you are still supporting the policies and actions of mass murderers in the 20th century.

Please show a post of mine that does what you claim?