Iraq says Zarqawi sending some militants back home to commit terrorist acts.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Patroklos
There are medications available to help your delusions.

I good nights sleep will do you good

I congradulate you though, in typical fashion you hit racism as the cause of all thing not agreeing with your viewpoint, Ted Striker talking point #84.

From another thread:

Originally posted by Patroklos
Wow, considering all my CSs are white, except for the Cheif who is black, you get the prize for the most racist comment of the night.

Though yes, the Phillipino mafia was an old Navy tradition, though their numbers are far fewer now that Subic is closed.

This particular spy was a Marine, not a Sailor.

I congradulate you though, in typical fashion you hit racism as the cause of all thing not agreeing with your viewpoint, Patroklos talking point #84.



ACK!

[Pekka]

Oerdin, right.. maybe.. I don't know..

I think the problem is that while the war happened fast, the invasion part, what then happened and is now happening kind of shows the weakness of the west, to NK and Iran.

What I mean is that.. while US is totally dominating, it shows that it's taking it's toll now in terms of resources, and public opinion still plays a big part, especially if it's partially negative. And that the planned two field war is not maybe in that good of a shape, meaning that you fight one war, and another one pops up and spread new forces there. OF course US has LOTS of more power and could put the whole ME into submission rather easy, but I think NK and Iran sees weakness, even though it's not really true, but it might appear so and thus they might grow or might already have grown more arrogant and trusting their own plans more.

Is it easier to recruit new terrorists now? Absolutely. But however you look at it, action in ME, ANY kind of action would be a reason for better recruiting opportunities. I don't think they had a problem before, recruiting.. they just now have more folks, but most of them would be just field soldiers and not of much use.

And you have to count that this might also use some of the international resources of their funding.. so they might actually have less money now, even though they can always get more and it's not like they wouldn't do crimes to get it, but at least I think some of the resources have been cut, so they have to work harder now for money, because their expenses also went up.

Did it make US less safe? I don't know. In ME, absolutely. In US? I don't know, maybe not. Has this made any impact to relations with some Euro countries? Yes it has. And that alone makes us all little less safe, I think what France did and some other countries was stupid because it showed weakness in our relations, and that there are new exploits to be used, and especially propaganda, and that these relations can be tried to.. hurt more. Allies should have shown more unified front, even if they disagreed. They could have talked their true feelings behind close doors, to show strength even when facing this kind of situation. This motivates terrorists.

[Patroklos]

Seeing as this...

Wow, considering all my CSs are white, except for the Cheif who is black, you get the prize for the most racist comment of the night.

Is an example to show that the Navy supply rates are NOTracist in light of this gem of a comment by you...

Have you ever seen a phillipino national in a classified field in the Navy?

Your conculsion is ridiculous. How does a comment about how racism is not a factor make me guilty of using racism as a factor?

Your a really weird guy.

[Patroklos]

Can these root causes be dealt with in a creative way which would not result in a massive surge of new terrorist recruits? Yes, what is needed is economic development and political reform in the Arab world tied with coordinated action in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We just didn't see lots of new terrorists signing up during Afghanistan since even the Arab world was appaled by 9/11 but Iraq was seen as an imperialist crudade to steal oil (rightly or wrongly) so it did result in the negative effects we've discussed. It seems pretty clear the reforms could have drained much of the swamp the terrorists breed in while staying focused on Al Qaeda would have reduced actual attacks on America. Invading Iraq didn neither of those things and in fact made them worse.

That is another approach to be sure, but a very slow one. Do you think you would be successful in stopping the causes of pre Iraqi invasion terrorism in three, four decades? All the while deaths mounting at an albeit slower but steady rate.

Again I don't think Iraq is the best way to fight terrorism, but I do think the proactive offensive approach while causeing more terroism in the short term, will end it faster and in the eld cause less death in destuction all together.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Seeing as this...



Is an example to show that the Navy supply rates are [b]NOT[/racist] in light of this gem of a comment by you...



Your conculsion is ridiculous. How does a comment about how racism is not a factor make me guilty of using racism as a factor?

Your a really weird guy.

The point is that you claim tED uses racism as an excuse for a lot of things.

Meanwhile, instead of debating my point you yourself go and make a claim of racism.

Bosun's Mate's weren't part of supply when I was in the Navy, has that changed?

I never said that everyone in CS was a Phillipino, I said most of the Phillipinos were in supply or deck division, if you can't tell the difference, you must be an O.

ACK!

[Patroklos]

Wow, are you serious?

You make a completely unqualified statment that

A) Why would a naturalized UNITED STATES CITIZEN be allowed to have a security clearance

then....

B) Basically say that Phillipinos are nothing but cooks and bosun mates

And then accuse me of using racism when all I did was point out that Phillipinos and naturalized US citizens should and are not discriminated against in the case of rates and clearances.

Wat a peice of work you are.

No bosuns are OPS, Suppy was in referance to cooks.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Patroklos
That is another approach to be sure, but a very slow one. Do you think you would be successful in stopping the causes of pre Iraqi invasion terrorism in three, four decades? All the while deaths mounting at an albeit slower but steady rate.

It is a longer term solution, however, we would be seeing fewer terrorist attacks today and less money being given to terrorist organizations today because we would not have had this massive upswing of support for terrorist groups in the muslim world. Iraq created this surge in support so no Iraq then no surge.

Would there still have been terrorism? Oh, yes. But less then there is now.

[Drake Tungsten]

The difference is there are now a lot more trained Islamic fanatics out there with hands on experience with armed revolts and unconventional warfare.

Little of which matters much when it comes to attacking the US. I'd be a lot more worried if there was an increase in Islamists with ability in the English language and familiarity with Western cultures enough to blend into American society effectively.

I don't understand how fighting in Iraq stops any terrorist attacks around the world though.

Let me check.. hmm Bali? Madrid? UK? Bali again?

If you look closely at the groups who perpetrated those attacks, you might realize why I'm less worried about insurgents fanning out from Iraq than I am about Islamists who either live in or have spent significant time in America.

[Dinner]

These things always have unintended consequences, Drake. No one thought the Taliban would turn on America but they did. Creating more terrorists, even if they're mainly attacking beach resorts in the Sinai or Saudi office buildings, is not in our best interests. We're not getting anything out of the current policy but we are getting a lot of downsides.

[Drake Tungsten]

We're kickstarting reform of the region. That will probably produce adverse effects in the short-term, but it's a much better long-term solution to the dangers posed by Islamism than our previous policy ever was.

That's assuming we follow through, however, which is seeming increasingly doubtful.

[Ted Striker]

.

[Drake Tungsten]

Exhibit A of why I doubt America's will to follow through...

[Mr. Harley]

Oerdin.

I wasn't going to post, since Oerdin covered just about everything I was going to say, and I was letting Ted, Drake, and Patroklos duke it out. However, then Drake made a statement that I am afraid he may be lacking info - not a shot at you Drake, but some genuine info to get you to maybe change your opinion.

Little of which matters much when it comes to attacking the US. I'd be a lot more worried if there was an increase in Islamists with ability in the English language and familiarity with Western cultures enough to blend into American society effectively.

Uh, Drake, besides the various Christian missons, do you know who is heavily recruiting in US Prisons? Saudi funded Muslim clerics, i.e. more or less Wahabi clerics. It is perfectly legal, and that is going to produce those Islamists you say you would be worried about. That was how Hose Pailla was recruited. And then there are all the Imam's and Mosques in the US and Britian that are recruiting, some of which are also fundamentalist. Or did you think Richard C. Reid sprang from nowhere. Or did you pay attention to the Subway and Bus bombings in England. The recruitment is happening, and we will have more terrorist bombings in the US. Period.

[Drake Tungsten]

Uh, Drake, besides the various Christian missons, do you know who is heavily recruiting in US Prisons? Saudi funded Muslim clerics, i.e. more or less Wahabi clerics. It is perfectly legal, and that is going to produce those Islamists you say you would be worried about. That was how Hose Pailla was recruited. And then there are all the Imam's and Mosques in the US and Britian that are recruiting, some of which are also fundamentalist. Or did you think Richard C. Reid sprang from nowhere. Or did you pay attention to the Subway and Bus bombings in England. The recruitment is happening, and we will have more terrorist bombings in the US. Period.

What does any of this have to do with terrorists from Iraq making "Al Qaeda look like amateurs", the point I was trying to refute in the first place?

I know there's recruitment going on in the US (just look at that bomber in Oklahoma). I'm worried about it, as I've already said. But it has **** all to do with the topic at hand.

[Patroklos]

I would also like to see what targets these realeased operatives pick. It may well be that they are unleashing loose cannons that will do the terrorists more harm than good.

I know I won't be able to find the article, but the fighters in Iraq are pretty much united by their hatred of the US only. Their political and religious believes are at odds with each other in most cases.

The bombings in Saudi Arabia did not do Al Queda any favors there, and similarly if they start bombing things in Jordan, Kuwait, UAE or Bahrain they will not be seen as crusading against the US like they are currently in Iraq.