PC Victim William Bennett

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Sikander


You post an anecdote to convince me to not swallow stats blindly?

No. I posted a cast-iron example of how hundreds of murders can go undetected. Harold Shipman is hardly an anecdote.

I've got others, too. Ask me about Thomas Adams one day.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Epublius Rex


I think you use a purely strawman argument to support your thesis, which absolutely flies in the face of statistical data

...and then he immediately follows up with a Strawman of his own...

- said data, if it supported your view, you would absolutely accept. It's kinda like the old IQ debate, the left makes the claim that it has no meaning- until they want to get a murderer off death row by claiming his IQ is too low to prosecute him as someone who would have known that he was doing wrong.

Then he insinuates I'm spoilt....

Rather like a spoilt child who demands that everyone else play the game by his rules- which he makes up as he goes so he will always win.

...and immediately after says it's childish to call people nasty names. Classic stuff, me old China. Are your posts drafted by a commitee?

The bottom line is that you're failing to acknowledge the shortfalls of your beloved stats when boldly asserting your facts. The the fact that you then shrilly declare those pointing out the shortfalls to be basing arguments on faith rather than reason starts looking really rather comical.

And, on another point, it's rather amusing to hear the word "spoilt" bandied about by a trustafarian dillettante.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by GePap
You guys arguing with this troll AGAIN!? Why?

By and large I'm not. I'm ignoring all his anti-commie BS and just concentrating on A) crime, and B) Che. I honestly wouldn't have bothered had Berz not taken him seriously.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Epublius Rex
Actually, you're wrong, yet again.

I wasn't an adult in the 80s? Really? How did you decide that?

The difference between you me is you believe in the silly propaganda machine of the communist party- I don't.

A) who brought up anything about the differences between us? B) who says I believe what the CP says.

try reading the slate article above.

That wasn't an article. It was an editorial, and not a sourced one at that. Just a series of assertions, much like your posts.

As per the drug war- yet again, you are wrong-

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ws/drugs/cron/

Did you even read your timeline? It shows the increase in violence associated with cocaine, which mirrors the crime statisitics shown in the graph provided by Imran.

Anyway, I'll trust Scientific American over your assertions.

[MrFun]

I guess Che is not done yet.

[chequita guevara]

Apparently not. I was having fun schooling the boy.

[MrFun]

That's right -- give him hell, Che!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp

No. I posted a cast-iron example of how hundreds of murders can go undetected. Harold Shipman is hardly an anecdote.

Which in a country with as many murders as the U.S. still wouldn't move the statistics enough to bring African Americans into line with other ethnic groups in regards to the murder rate. In the U.S. Shipman is an anecdote. You are arguing like a creationist, with no evidence of your own you think you can negate my mound of evidence by picking at it with tweezers.

[Odin]

Looks like Cali called in his E Pluribis Rex DL again.


The reason there is a higher crime rate among minorities is because minorities are proportionally poorer than whites. It is socioeconomic status and culture that matters, not race.

[Dinner]

Most crime happens in urban areas and minorities disproportionately live in urban areas.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Most crime happens in urban areas and minorities disproportionately live in urban areas.

And the inner cities tend to be poorer than the 'burbs, thus my point stands.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Sikander


Which in a country with as many murders as the U.S. still wouldn't move the statistics enough to bring African Americans into line with other ethnic groups in regards to the murder rate. In the U.S. Shipman is an anecdote. You are arguing like a creationist, with no evidence of your own you think you can negate my mound of evidence by picking at it with tweezers.

OK, Sikander. Let's move this up a notch.

You claim that significant numbers of murders could not go undetected. I provided an example of just one man responsible for 250 murders that went undetected for years. Are you saying that could never happen in the US? Please explain how that is so. Please also explain why the Shipman case is not "evidence".


Now let's look at how many people go missing in the US every year. How many of them get murdered, and by whom? How does your "mound of evidence" factor them in?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Most crime happens in urban areas and minorities disproportionately live in urban areas.

Please......

Most reported crime. I grew up in the wilds, and you can get away with murder (in a manner of speaking) where there are no police, no CCTV and probably no witnesses.

[Boris Godunov]

Crime statistics, of course, don't measure the number of crimes committed, but the number of arrests for crimes. Since even the U.S. Justice Department acknowledged that blacks are disproportionately arrested and incarcerated as compared to whites, the statistics are meaningless.

THE REALITY OF RACIALLY DISPARATE YOUTH CRIME? While some have denounced the comments by former Education Secretary and Drug Czar William Bennett, they unfortunately believe his comments are based in fact. Those who believe that African American or Latino youth are more ;criminal" than any other ethnic groups are simply wrong. The real facts tell us much more than stereotypes, or musings—both of which obscure the well-documented disparate treatment accorded African Americans compared to whites within the justice system. These comments on racially disparate crime also overlook the area of "corporate crime."

For over a decade, the Justice Department has been working to reduce the racial disparity seen in juvenile arrests and juvenile imprisonment, a fact that underscores the existence of racially disparate arrests and sentences. African American youth arrest rates for drug violations, assaults and weapon offenses are higher than arrest rates for white youth—even though both report similar rates of delinquency.

FEDERAL LAWMAKERS RECOGNIZE YOUTH OF COLOR ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY BY THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM. Since 1992, when the Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention Act (JJDPA) was amended, the federal government has acknowledged that youth of different races and ethnicities are treated differently by the justice system. As such the federal government has promoted policies to ease those disparities. [2] The Republican Congress reauthorized the JJDPA in 2003.

THE IMPACT OF THE "RACE EFFECT." In a seminal meta-analysis conducted by researchers Carl Pope and Richard Feyerherm for the Justice Department, two-thirds of the studies of state and local juvenile justice systems they analyzed found that there was a "race effect" at some stage of the juvenile justice process that affected outcomes for minorities for the worse. Their research suggested that "the effects of race may be felt at various decision points, they may be direct or indirect, and they may accumulate as youth continue through the system." [3]

LARGEST DISPARITIES FOUND IN DRUG ARRESTS, IMPRISONMENT. Some of the greatest disparities in the juvenile justice system's response to youth of color involve the number of youth arrested, and prosecuted for drug offenses. While African American youth comprise 17% of the youth population [4], African American youth represent 27% of all drug violation arrests, and comprise 48% of the youth detained for a drug offense.

"Contrary to popular assumption, at all three grade levels African American youth have substantially lower rates of use of most licit and illicit drugs than do Whites."
— Monitoring the Future Survey, 2004.

Table 1: African Americans Make Up Nearly Half the Youth Detained for Drug Offenses, But Use Drugs at the Same Rate as Whites

Source: Crime in the United States, 2001. (2002) Washington, DC: U.S. Justice Department, Federal Bureau of Investigations. Puzzanchera, C., Finnegan, T. and Kang, W. (2005). "Easy Access to Juvenile Populations" Online. Available: http://www.ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/ezapop/; Sickmund, Melissa, Sladky, T.J., and Kang, Wei. (2004) "Census of Juveniles in Residential Placement Databook." Online. Available: http://www.ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/cjrp/

African American Youth Are Treated Differently By the Juvenile Justice System

Drugs. According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, among youths aged 12 to 17, the rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans. [5] In a previous year, the same survey found that white youth aged 12 to17 are more than a third more likely to have sold drugs than African American youth. [6] The Monitoring the Future Survey of high school seniors shows that white students annually use cocaine at 4.6 times the rate of African Americans students, use crack cocaine at 1.5 times the rate of African Americans students, and use heroin at the same rate of African Americans students, and that white youth report annual use of marijuana at a rate 46% higher than African American youth. [7] However African American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites, [8] and African American youth represent nearly half (48%) of all the youth incarcerated for a drug offense in the juvenile justice system. [9]

Weapons. According to the Center on Disease Control's annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, in 2001 whites and African Americans reported similar rates of carrying a weapon (whites 17.9%, African Americans 15.2%), and similar rates of carrying a gun (whites 5.5%, and African Americans, 6.5%). [10] African American youth represent 32% of all weapons arrests, and were arrested for weapons offenses at a rate twice that of whites (69 per 100,000, versus 30 per 100,000). [11]

Assault. According to the Center on Disease Control's annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, African Americans report being in a physical fight at a similar rate (36.5%, versus 32.5% for whites), but were arrested for aggravated assault at a rate nearly three times that of whites (137 per 100,000, versus 48 per 100,000).

"The existence of much larger racial and ethnic differences in arrest rates than in self-reported violence is a matter of great concern. On the one hand, there is no reason to expect similar distributions, because these measures were designed to assess different aspects of violence. But if both measures are valid and reliable, the discrepancy suggests that the probability of being arrested for a violent offense varies with race/ethnicity."
—Youth Violence: A Report of the Surgeon General, January, 2001. [12]

For More Information, contact the Justice Policy Institute

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-jones/are-blacks-a-criminal-rac_b_8398.html

[MrFun]

very insightful information, Boris