Jihad on Burger King

[our_man]

Talk about non-intelligent remarks. You think Jews and Muslims wouldn't find that offensive as well? What exactly would make Jerry Springer the opera specifically offensive to the Christian faith, as opposed to generally offensive to people of faith, or individual with conservative values?

Nope, the people ringing the BBC complaining were Christians. Having read about the play, there's nothing offensive to Jews in it as far as I can see. I don't know enough about Islam to tell whether there is anything in there which attacks their religion, because the BBC didn't report any Muslims calling in. Could you tell me where in the play is the bit which is directly offensive to Jews, because I don't believe you. Back your remark up.

Whomever decided to make a play about Jerry Springer obviously did it with the intent to cause controversy. There is a fundamental difference between a piece of performance art and a corporate logo on ice cream.

Yes, my point being that they would do this to cause controversy aimed at Christianity; a similar play would never have been created in the current enviroment with say, Mohammed substituted for Jesus, due to the outcry it would provoke. As you said, there's a fundamental difference. If Muslims found a corporate logo offensive, how do you think they would react to the above situation?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
declaring jihad against BK?

You knew it was bound to happen.

[GePap]

Originally posted by our_man


Nope, the people ringing the BBC complaining were Christians. Having read about the play, there's nothing offensive to Jews in it as far as I can see. I don't know enough about Islam to tell whether there is anything in there which attacks their religion, because the BBC didn't report any Muslims calling in. Could you tell me where in the play is the bit which is directly offensive to Jews, because I don't believe you. Back your remark up.

Oh, for god's sake!

1. Given that I assume you are writing from an overwhelmingly Christian place (if your little flag is anything to go by), how many muslims really would there be to call in? Or Jews?

2. How much do you exactly know about Jews or Muslim beliefs, anyways? Jesus, have you also seen Jerry Springer? his show is full of societies freaks and outsiders, and was always made to create a scene. Given that homosexuals for example are as much a taboo to Muslims and conservative Jews as they are to conservative Christians, I can;t imagine any conservative religious individual who would not be offended by a "opera" based on his show. Hell, I am anaethist, and I find Jerry Springer's hosw crass and tasteless.

3. This is yet another wonderful example of MY POINT. Jerry Springer, and by extension, the people putting on this opera both live in overwhelmingly Christian states-where is someone is religious at all the likelyhood of them being Christian is at least 80%. So when they decide to make things offensive to society, as these men have done, that society they mean to offend is Christian. Offending small minorities is hardly the point. BUt I bet you a show about transexual nazi necrophiliacs would have an Iman, a Priest, and a Rabbi euqally appaled.

Yes, my point being that they would do this to cause controversy aimed at Christianity; a similar play would never have been created in the current enviroment with say, Mohammed substituted for Jesus, due to the outcry it would provoke. As you said, there's a fundamental difference. If Muslims found a corporate logo offensive, how do you think they would react to the above situation?

Jerry Springer: The Operae has Jesus in it?

Oh, and for your information, Given that Jesus is recognized by the Muslim faith as one of God's prophets and therefore venerated, it is already against the Muslim faith to defame Jesus, same as Moses. So you can be pretty damn sure that is Jesus is in the play, it IS offensive to conservative Muslims.

Which only furthers my point about the importance of cultural primacy, and cultural ignorance, on this whole matter.

[Q Classic]

Odin, don't be ridiculous. They look exactly identical if you tilt your head 33 degrees to the right, squint with your left eye, and poke the right eye with your pinky with about .235 oz/sq in, in 79.3 degree Fahrenheit weather.

Why do you hate Allah?

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


so you still think BK has folks who can read Hebrew letters, but out of ignorance cant read Arabic letters?

Hebrew Letters are cluncky. Its probably a hell of a lot harder to make any logo that would just happen to bear a small and incidental resemblence to any statement of religious connotation with Hebrew, than with a flowing script like Arabic.

Its like "accidentaly" using Roman letters.

And no, I doubt that BK corporate in Europe knows anything about Hebrew.

[our_man]

1. Given that I assume you are writing from an overwhelmingly Christian place (if your little flag is anything to go by), how many muslims really would there be to call in? Or Jews?

Check my location field - it's usually a better indication of where a person is. Besides, in all my posts I stated UK, not Ireland...

Oh, and for your information, Given that Jesus is recognized by the Muslim faith as one of God's prophets and therefore venerated, it is already against the Muslim faith to defame Jesus, same as Moses. So you can be pretty damn sure that is Jesus is in the play, it IS offensive to conservative Muslims.

Yup, I'm aware of this, which is the reason why I said I wasn't sure if they'd take offence. I've never known any Muslim to get upset over Jesus, but quite a few get touchy if anything negative is said about Mohammed. Anyway, you can't give a direct example of how Jews are attacked in Jerry Springer: The Opera. The Jesus scene specifically attacks the cornerstone of Christian faith.

Anyway, what do you think would happen if Mohammed were substituted for Jesus? IMHO the reaction would be far more vehement, even in a country with a small Muslim population like the UK.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


Hebrew Letters are cluncky. Its probably a hell of a lot harder to make any logo that would just happen to bear a small and incidental resemblence to any statement of religious connotation with Hebrew, than with a flowing script like Arabic.

Its like "accidentaly" using Roman letters.

And no, I doubt that BK corporate in Europe knows anything about Hebrew.

Theres also Hebrew cursive, in addition to Hebrew block letters.

I have no idea if there are any logos tht could look like something sacred in either Hebrew cursive or block. Cause no one goes around looking for them. If some loon did, they would receive no backup from the ADL.

[our_man]

For the record, I pigeonhole Christians that protest against stuff like Marilyn Manson and Jerry Springer in the same pigeonhole as the Muslims protesting over this. If they don't like it, they don't have to watch it. I believe that Muslims are far more prone to taking offence at things though, as this ice-cream incident shows. The guy could have chosen to stop going to BK himself, but instead he decided to start a nationwide Muslim movement against it.

[lord of the mark]

you know, now that i look at it, the right part of the swirl, the "w" looks very much like the Hebrew letter Shin. Given that, the left portion looks like a transposed letter Dalet. Thus it would read "Shadai" one of the sacred names of God (thats why theres a Shin on the outside of most mezuzahs - you live in a heavily Jewish area, GE, you can confirm this)

Anyone care to email ADL pointing this out? Anyone think theyd back you up on it?

[our_man]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
you know, now that i look at it, the right part of the swirl, the "w" looks very much like the Hebrew letter Shin. Given that, the left portion looks like a transposed letter Dalet. Thus it would read "Shadai" one of the sacred names of God (thats why theres a Shin on the outside of most mezuzahs - you live in a heavily Jewish area, GE, you can confirm this)

Anyone care to email ADL pointing this out? Anyone think theyd back you up on it?

Go for it. It's about time someone exposed BK's neo-nazi agenda.

[GePap]

Originally posted by our_man


Anyway, what do you think would happen if Mohammed were substituted for Jesus? IMHO the reaction would be far more vehement, even in a country with a small Muslim population like the UK.

Certainly the reaction would be more vocal and angrier.

That would not have stopped the producers of the play thought, would it, given that they set out to insult people in the first place.

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
you know, now that i look at it, the right part of the swirl, the "w" looks very much like the Hebrew letter Shin. Given that, the left portion looks like a transposed letter Dalet. Thus it would read "Shadai" one of the sacred names of God (thats why theres a Shin on the outside of most mezuzahs - you live in a heavily Jewish area, GE, you can confirm this)

Anyone care to email ADL pointing this out? Anyone think theyd back you up on it?

What is it with you and irrelevant tangents? And since when is tha ADL the only Jewish group out there?

[GePap]

Originally posted by our_man
For the record, I pigeonhole Christians that protest against stuff like Marilyn Manson and Jerry Springer in the same pigeonhole as the Muslims protesting over this. If they don't like it, they don't have to watch it. I believe that Muslims are far more prone to taking offence at things though, as this ice-cream incident shows. The guy could have chosen to stop going to BK himself, but instead he decided to start a nationwide Muslim movement against it.

The question being, why the **** should you give a damn about the choices he made? Did you have a vested interest in that exact BK ice cream symbol? Does it make any difference to you what it looks like? Sp what then is the problem for you, anyone here for that matter?

That is what makes this thread just as absurd. People talk about how if this guy had been offended, he should just avoid it, but because they are for some reason offended by his actions, they have to start blathering about it and making a thread.

[our_man]

Originally posted by GePap

That would not have stopped the producers of the play thought, would it, given that they set out to insult people in the first place.

I wouldn't bet on it. There was a Sikh play in the UK a few months ago that was called off due to pressure from that community. The same thing would probably happen in these circumstances, considering the Muslim community in Britain is more volatile.

Originally posted by GePap

Certainly the reaction would be more vocal and angrier.

At least you agree with me that Muslims tend to take greater offence at things than other do, and what I have been trying to say all along is that they are getting upset over things which they shouldn't be. Why should they care over a silly lid? It's not as if BK did it intentionally.

[our_man]

Originally posted by GePap


The question being, why the **** should you give a damn about the choices he made? Did you have a vested interest in that exact BK ice cream symbol? Does it make any difference to you what it looks like? Sp what then is the problem for you, anyone here for that matter?

That is what makes this thread just as absurd. People talk about how if this guy had been offended, he should just avoid it, but because they are for some reason offended by his actions, they have to start blathering about it and making a thread.

The only reason why I'm concerned about it (if you had read all my posts this would have been clear) is that I feel it sets a dangerous precedent. We're not talking about how one guy has been offended, but how the representative Muslim body in the country has been in agreement with him.