Guess who just got a job as a FEMA consultant?

[Drake Tungsten]

Listen: I don't know a lot about US politics

Obviously.

[RGBVideo]

Ahh, speak of the devil.

Darkstar, if you want an example of the "repeat until true" -methods of the republican hacks, try searching a Terry Schiavo -thread from Off Topic archive. In that thread, Drake kept repeating and repeating how there was definite proof that she was alive all the time, the democrats killed her and how it was all a scheme of her evil, greedy millionare husband. All obviously false and proven false repeadetly by Drake's opposition (eg. everyone in the forum), but he kept repeating the message anyway.

[Darkstar]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Listening to crap like Rush Limbaugh explains how you managed to get just about every fact wrong in this thread.

Actually, Rush hasn't said much about this, other then pointing out that the initial numbers reported by such worthwhile sources as NPR and the NYT has been way, way wrong. Just as has been now popping up throughout American media.

Wait... he did point out that you always get the government you elect.

It must be rough being you, Oerdin. You have such raging wood for Bush and Rush. Maybe you just like all things *ush? Well, you should only have to wait another 18 years for the Demos to be back in power. Of course, they'll act just like Repubs do now. The Repubs have turned into the generic Uber party we always see in American politics. Wonder if you'll stay an underdog, and just pop a drop of Viagra so you can get some wood on for Rush's replacement?

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Guess who just got a job as a FEMA consultant?

Originally posted by vomitus
Nah, it's believable. It's sort of like the former captain of the Exxon Valdez was teaching classes on how to pilot of tanker ship.

The former captain never had a problem piloting the ship. It was his subordinate who ran it aground. It wouldn't even have been a problem if Exxon hadn't illegally been using a single-hulled tanker instead of the double hulled tanker required by law. That was then compounded by the fact that they didn't keep the required equipment in their port in order to combat a spill should one have occured. But, sure, let's blame the guy who was off duty cuz he just worked well over a normal shift.

[Darkstar]

VJ, it's not spin. Go check out how LA has been run. It's not that its "The city's fault because its Democrat". It's "its the fault of the Democratic dynasty that has ruled LA for over 150 years, and the Blanko dynasty that has ruled it for the last 60+ years". It's bad ole Southern Ole Boy Network at its very worst levels of cronyism, corruption, and all things bad politic. This is the same leadership that has had an active policy of keeping poor blacks (and poor whites), ignorant, and dependant on them to maintain its power base (and in prior generations, to keep the lesser races in their proper place). It is the very extreme of Old Democratic politics, at least in the South.

That's not Republican spin. That's just American history, and how the state political feifdoms still work, where they haven't been through a recent revival since the Reconstruction (you know, that period following the American Civil War).

Now, that poor, sick clustered duck that actually happened, that took a lot of people, for a very long time, screwing it over and setting it up to happen. Trying to pin it on Bush or FEMA is just giving too much a pass over all those who have bigger shares of that pooh brushing. Such as LA's very own congressional representation that themselves decided to spend all that money on other projects that would buy them more votes.

Bush has to take his share, as head of the executive branch. He's the leader, that's what happens. But, as he didn't frag up everyplace else that Katrina came through, that suggests all he did, for better or worse, is maintain the status quo.

FEMA's job is not the occupation of territory. It's not search and rescue. So, whose job is it under the new Homeland Security? That, I don't know. But I bet they are spinning away pretty seriously at the moment to keep everything focused of them. Heck, from what I hear out of the left and the right, no body knows whose actual job it is to render aid as national first responders. But I know who Bush wants to make it *now*.

Oh, and VJ... it's a standard practice in all politics of the whole spectrum to "repeat until true". The reason is simple... it works. On about 1/3 of all humans. Police use it to get innocent people to confess to crimes they never committed (without any form of physical coercision). Several psychological studies have shown that you can make a large minority of people believe anything, as long as you repeat it enough.

[Darkstar]

VJ, are you saying Ms. Schaivo wasn't alive? That was a fact that she was. Now, to what degree she was "aware" (zero, goldfish, small dog), that was under debate.

I personally was against her being starved/dehydrated to death. I wasn't against her right to die. I just thought the method should have involved a serious amount of pain killers, so that there could be no question whatsever that whatever her level of awareness, she wasn't suffering. From what little of what I've heard about her dieing, that wasn't done.

Now, the sorrid fighting between her husband and her parents, well... with what few facts I'd seen on their history, it seems more likely it was a method by the husband to be rid of what he saw as merely a husk. As there was no living will left by Terry, that made it his decision to make, and eventually the courts backed that. Or have I not drunk enough kool-aid of the right flavor?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by VJ
Ahh, speak of the devil.

Darkstar, if you want an example of the "repeat until true" -methods of the republican hacks, try searching a Terry Schiavo -thread from Off Topic archive. In that thread, Drake kept repeating and repeating how there was definite proof that she was alive all the time, the democrats killed her and how it was all a scheme of her evil, greedy millionare husband. All obviously false and proven false repeadetly by Drake's opposition (eg. everyone in the forum), but he kept repeating the message anyway.

That is the way the right wing smear machine works. Repeat it until people don't know or recognize the truth. It works with evolution, it works with disasters, and it even works with reasons to start wars.

[Darkstar]

Re: Re: Re: Guess who just got a job as a FEMA consultant?

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The former captain never had a problem piloting the ship. It was his subordinate who ran it aground. It wouldn't even have been a problem if Exxon hadn't illegally been using a single-hulled tanker instead of the double hulled tanker required by law. That was then compounded by the fact that they didn't keep the required equipment in their port in order to combat a spill should one have occured. But, sure, let's blame the guy who was off duty cuz he just worked well over a normal shift.

The hull wasn't illegal back then, was it? Not in American waterways. I had read that it was the Exxon Valdeze incident that had persuaded the American legislature to getting around to requiring oil tankers to be double-hulled in the first place (well, by the year 2015 or so, isn't it?).

Wasn't the equipment issue more of a matter that they'd never actually used it, nor actually tested it?

The Captain still gets the blame though. Ultimately. You have to be making at least 7 places in salary before you can escape the fact that being the leader means it is ultimately your fault. You need to be able to afford those very talented, highly paid, and well proven lawyers and PR firms to get out of the responsibility. Just ask Ellison. He's still trying to get out of his insider trading charges that allowed him to make over 400 million on his knowledge as CEO of Oracle. Of course, if he had been a member of Congress, it would have been perfectly legal to trade on his knowledge.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Darkstar
VJ, are you saying Ms. Schaivo wasn't alive? That was a fact that she was. Now, to what degree she was "aware" (zero, goldfish, small dog), that was under debate.

Yet more ignorance from the guy who's been laughed off of a different message board. She was brain dead. She was brain dead all through out the "debate", if you can call it that, and the post mortum prooved she was brain dead. All the regular doctors agreed and only a handful of worthless hacks who got flown in by right wing groups disagreed. The vast, vast, vast majority of doctors all said the same thing "she's brain dead" and they were all proved to be correct.

The sleeze bags who were paid $100k a year to lie for right wing shrills were the only ones saying other wise.

[Darkstar]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That is the way the right wing smear machine works. Repeat it until people don't know or recognize the truth. It works with evolution, it works with disasters, and it even works with reasons to start wars.

Sigh.

Oerdin, it's also how the left wing smear machine works. It's how religionous nuts get their propraganda out. It's how aethesist evangelists get theirs out. Heck, it's even how the Civ fans have responded to ICS is incurable (ie, the "ICS is s strategy not an exploit"!) It's how politics work, because things like truth are rarely believed or too complex for the simple minds of the future voting masses or just because if you tell someone something long enough, they will believe it.

Go check out what the American people were told for any of our wars. Aside from WW2 and Afghan, I cannot recall an instance of when the leaders actually told the truth. Excuses, half-truths, and outright lies were found and repeated until the populace believed it. And once the people were in it, when the actual truth came out, it was unimportant.

It's not just Americans. This has been true throughout time, for as long as we've had records. The Romans were particularly noted for doing this in ancient times. You may recall I said that way back before Gulf the Sequel.

[Dinner]

The "left wing smear machine" you speak about is vanishingly small and has virtually no influence so it is absurd for you even to try to troat out this tired old line. The main stream media is very equal opportunity in their attacks on both sides where as the right wing has built up a massive monolethic missinformation system using talk radio, Fox News, and right wing web sites. They almost always release the same right wing talking points written by Karl Rove on any given day. You can see them all discuse the exact same points using the exact same phrases because it is released as part of the White Houses propaganda campaign.

It is designed to spin, distort, and misinform, and out right lie. The crap you've written here, which has been shown to be completely wrong and having nothing to do with the truth, is an example of this.

[Darkstar]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Yet more ignorance from the guy who's been laughed off of a different message board. She was brain dead. She was brain dead all through out the "debate", if you can call it that, and the post mortum prooved she was brain dead. All the regular doctors agreed and only a handful of worthless hacks who got flown in by right wing groups disagreed. The vast, vast, vast majority of doctors all said the same thing "she brain dead" and they were all proved to be correct.

The sleeze bags who were paid $100k a year to lie for right wing shrills were the only ones saying other wise.

First off, I wasn't laughed off. I've been spending time on the Egosoft and GC2 forums. I can just manage two forums. I've been trying to spread the word about GC2 to this place for those interested. I'll return to my proper home once Egosoft released X3 and I get over being an eager fan boy awaiting that game. And the GC2 forum is quieting down, since Beta stage 3 phase B has started (and that's a smaller test Beta from the bigger Beta pool).

Second, it wasn't a vast, vast majority. The doctors agreed she was "brain damaged". They couldn't agree how much or little functionality she had. The docs split their decisions on if she was brain dead, a feeling but unaware living form, or if she was in some low level form of dreaming. Whether they were brought in by the husband or the parents and the nosy people form outside. Whether they were paid or doing it free.

Third, even if you were completely braindead, that doesn't mean you are dead. Just the most important part of you would be dead. Medically speaking, your body is still alive. And there was no question her body was still alive. Which is what I said before.

Is this fun for you, or you just in the need to try to bully someone because you are still getting your daily butt whipping from your next door neighbor and you need to try to get a personal ego boost before your self worth completely evaporates and the only thing you can think of involves a bullet and your mouth?

[Darkstar]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The "left wing smear machine" you speak about is vanishingly small and has virtually no influence so it is absurd for you even to try to troat out this tired old line. The main stream media is very equal opportunity in their attacks on both sides where as the right wing has built up a massive monolethic missinformation system using talk radio, Fox News, and right wing web sites. They almost always release the same right wing talking points written by Karl Rove on any given day. You can see them all discuse the exact same points using the exact same phrases because it is released as part of the White Houses propaganda campaign.

It is designed to spin, distort, and misinform, and out right lie. The crap you've written here, which has been shown to be completely wrong and having nothing to do with the truth, is an example of this.

! Ok, my apologies. I see that you are kidding! You really had me going there for a while. Wow. What a riot you are.

Again, my apologies. I had thought you were serious, until you wrote this!

See, this has to be a joke. Otherwise, if you never watch or read anything more right then NPR and the NYT, how would you know what crazy right wing web sites write? How would you know what the White House actually says? How do you know what Fox (or any other Murdock property) says?

Wow. You are good, Oerdin! :b

[Dinner]

BTW you lied. New Orleans was never paid to upgrade the levees to a Cat 5 level and instead the plan put forward by the Army Corp called for the retrofit of the levees to a Cat 4 level. That retrofit had its budget slashed by 60% by the Administration so that it could not be completed nor more then very worst of the levees even repaired to the Cat 3 level.

Some of the 40% which remained of the original retrofit money did get rerouted to other local projects but it was mainly because the Administration slashed the budget so savagely that it was pointless to spend it on a project which they could only cover 40% of the costs for.

I personally support an independent inquiry into what happened to things which failed or went right at all levels of government can be investigated. The Republicans in both the Congress and the White House are trying to prevent this with all of their might. They've started a partisan joke of an "investigation" where Brown has been hired to investigate himself ( ) and where Republican hacks can basically grandstand and claim the locals are the reason FEMA didn't do its job. The good news is 81% of Americans want an independent investigation into the Katrina disaster while the bad news is so far the Republicans have conducted nothing but a partisan farce designed to white wash the Bush Administrations incompetence and to attempt to solely blame Democrats on the local and state level for FEMA not doing its job.

I have to wonder why the Republicans are trying so hard to prevent a fair nonpartisan look at all levels of government in order to examine what went right and what went wrong. Could it be they know that under closer scrutiny they know their spin will prove to be a pack of lies? Are they afraid that, in reality, Blanco did everything necessary to get Federal help and it was FEMA who dragged their feet? (A nonpartisan Congressional investigation has already found this to be true.)

[Dinner]

Darkstar, you've been pawned to **** in this thread by a number of people. You know it, I know it, the readers know it.

I and Boris and a few other people have backed up what we've said with links to creditable news sources while all you've given are your unsupported opinions and talking points off of the Rush Limbaugh show. Why don't we let the people who read this thread decide which side is more creditable?