Guess who just got a job as a FEMA consultant?

[Q Classic]

Darkstar, why do you hate Mongolia?

[Darkstar]

I don't. I'm just using the only expression I've ever heard to describe what happens when the Federal, State, and Local government activities are properly coordinated.

I'm sitting here at MSFC. We are in chopper range of NO. NASA's got 2 facilities down in LA and MS that got damaged by Katrina (one is in NO). You should have seen the frustration that popped up immediately after the storm when NASA wanted to help NO out. The bureaucracy, at all levels, immediately jumped in the way. And I mean, the local level at NO, the state level of LA, and the Federal government. NASA ended up just concentrating on helping out its own people at the two centers (which doesn't involve any outside agencies on any levels, other then air traffic control), and letting those centers help out the local, non-NASA around them.

This center happens to be located on an Army arsenal that happens to have a lot of Army choppers on it (as in, 1/3 of the US's Army's total, if you can believe the numbers bandied about). The local personel in the Army also wanted to help out. They also got turned down.

You get offered teams of trained personel in search and rescue, and you turn it down because they won't be in your direct chain of command? That's what the Gov of LA did. Maybe she had her reasons, but it seems strange. It is also something that seems to reoccur, over and over. Constant refusal, before, during, and after, of help offered. I haven't heard any good reasons. That's what all those disaster planning excercises are for, isn't it? Practicing organizing various resources to help the people that are in harms way out?

[Tattila the Hun]

So FEMA under him fouled up. It's logical that he should have experience, and knowledge now, to really find out, what went wrong, and how they can prevent it from happening the next time.

[Q Classic]

And when he does finally give them the proper critiques, and they improve their response, maybe then give him the medal?

[Darkstar]

You know, that's a likely thing. Bleah!
Or maybe he'll just be appointed as the UN Ambassador or some other meaningless political appointment.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Darkstar


Actually, that is the way the rest of our society works. Check out the corporate world. That's very standard. Run an agency or corporation into the ground, leave, and then get hired back for much, much more. I'll accept this is stupid, but it's common practice in business, government, and politics. The bigger you fail, the bigger an expert you become. Stupid but true.

[Boris Godunov]

I would suggest anyone interested in knowing why Darkstar's excuse-making for the Federal response is a load of horse hockey check out the official National Response Plan at the DHS:

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0566.xml

Choice highlights are summed up here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/5/225729/7487

Note that the NRP gives the Secretary of Defense and the President full authority to dispatch military forces to disaster areas, even without the local officials making requests in proper bureaucratic form:

"Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited, or under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude."

The authority to do this occured the moment Bush declared it a federal disaster area, which was 3 days before the hurricane hit.

As for Blanco claiming LA could handle it on their own, I'm not sure where that BS came from.

From Aug. 27:

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.” [Office of the Governor]

That's prett explicitley saying she knows their resources can't handle it. And when did she complain about not being able to command federal troops? That's ass-backwards, as what she did was refuse to allow the federal government to control her state's national guard, which was already deployed to the disaster zone.

The failure to evacuate 100,000+ people still trapped in NO before the storm hit isn't really something that can be laid at Nagin's feet, since there simply didn't exist the resources to do so. Assuming he would have enough city busses and people able to drive them (which he didn't), he would then have to have a feasible way to get everyone on them in a timely manner. Not easy, when they were spread out over a huge area. They did the right thing by getting people as best they could to reasonably safe collection points like the Superdome and Convention Center to ride out the storm and be evacuated afterwards. That alone saved thousands of lives.

[Ted Striker]

Edited for adult content: Strong language, violence, adult situations

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Darkstar
So, we aren't to believe what the Mayor and others stated on camera during the events? Blanko did not request Federal troops. She requested more National Guard be dispatched to LA, but only under her perview/command. Not the same thing as asking for the feds to come in and maintain order. Fox and CNN blasted that all over the news down here in the SE, with her on tape whining about the fact that the Feddies wouldn't give her Federal troops to be under her command, so she was not going to sign off on having them come in at all.

Wrong again. She said Federal troops were welcome but that she would not sign over her national guard. Big difference.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Darkstar
Strangely, the Democrats are to blame. Considering, you know, that they've been running LA for the last, what, 150 years unchallenged. Not to mention having been paid to upgrade the levies to withstand Category 5 hurricanes, but siphoning off the money to use for other projects (thus assuring that they will get more money in the future).

And now we see why people call you dorkstar. They upgrade effort was supposed to make it catagory 4 complient not catagory five and since 2000 when the work was supposed to be done Bush has cut about 60% of the funding needed to complete the work. There was a thread about this here at poly complete with sites, links, and documentation.

To much right wing radio rots your brain.

[Darkstar]

Ordorish Breath, Bush has never cut anything since he's been in office. Congress has, but not Bush. You might want to take a listen to something slightly right of Airhead America, because the fiscal conservatives who used to back him are chewing him a new behind about it.

Wrong again. She said Federal troops were welcome but that she would not sign over her national guard. Big difference.

She was ascerting that she wanted to maintain control. Which is what I said, and you quoted. Its against federal policy to dispatch more troops to an area where the governor is retaining control of her mobilized miliita. If you want the extra troops, you've got to suck up to their federal chain of command.

But don't worry. The Reps, in conjuction with the Dems, are already drawing up future plans to stand down all police and state guard so that the Feddies can sweep in and take uncontested and clear control of any area that may be experiencing any form of unrest or disaster.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Darkstar
Ordorish Breath, Bush has never cut anything since he's been in office. Congress has, but not Bush. You might want to take a listen to something slightly right of Airhead America,

I'm sorry but...

BTW I have never even listened to Air America and my sources are usually NPR, MSNBC, and the BBC. I'll sometime surf the NYT, WaPo, and The Guardian as well. Basically all the best news sources out there but thanks for playing.

[Darkstar]

So you just listen to cycle one and cycle two of Air America? Most of what you quoted as your sources are to the same leftness as Air America, at least in the market studies of why they are losing market share in the US.

Now, I actually do read the BBC and an occasional spot on The Guardian, and I like to balance out my doses of Rush with the NPR. I find it more entertaining to here what both sides are saying themselves, and what they are saying about each other. You could do with a bit of more of variety, Ors. Considering that neither side in America is very often correct, I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle (when both sides aren't covering up their portions of the stink pile).

Later on, friend!

[Dinner]

Listening to crap like Rush Limbaugh explains how you managed to get just about every fact wrong in this thread.

[RGBVideo]

Strangely, the Democrats are to blame. Considering, you know, that they've been running LA for the last, what, 150 years unchallenged. Not to

Hooray for the republican spin machine. Never mind that it was the republicans in congress who virtually eliminated FEMA budget in order to fund bridges leading nowhere in Alaska with millions; every state and every city is now supposed to have it's own weather disaster response agency, complete with it's own satellites, computers, dozens of meteorologists and preferably armies to maintain order.

Listen: I don't know a lot about US politics, but I've seen this "it's the DEMOCRATIC city official's fault" -line before. The first time I saw it was on another messaging board on an information thread about the disaster, right after the Bush said "let's not play the blame game", a blatantly partisan republican hack started repeating it. That's how the GOP seems to work these days -- make up lies, then repeat until they become true in the voters minds.