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A closer view. 
It's a slightly different version, but you get the idea.
It's a slightly different version, but you get the idea.
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"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry Lime -
what is human beauty? Now mark me, the Hebraic civilization I have one foot in considers physical beauty illusory, and true beauty, including true female beauty, to be internal. But that is NOT the dominant tradition in western art - not to the Greeks, or the Renaissance Italians. That tradition would hold having two arms to be more perfect than not having two arms, I think.Originally posted by MosesPresley
The same as it was in the Renaissance, to portray the beauty and the human race's transcendence over nature.
Arguably much of modern art threw off this sensibility, and focused more on inner truth. A victory for Jerusalem over Athens, then?
"Grace is deceitful, and beauty is vain; but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised. "
Of course among the vulgar masses at my Synagogue and elsewhere, the majority of Jews are quite Hellenized on this matter.Last edited by lord of the mark; September 15, 2005, 11:02."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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His sculpture definitely owes much more to modern sensibility than to the Renaissance.Originally posted by lord of the mark
what is human beauty? Now mark me, the Hebraic civilization I have one foot in considers physical beauty illusory, and true beauty, including true female beauty, to be internal. But that is NOT the dominant tradition in western art - not to the Greeks, or the Renaissance Italians. That tradition would hold having two arms to be more perfect than not having two arms, I think.
Arguably much of modern art threw off this sensibility, and focused more on inner truth. A victory for Jerusalem over Athens, then?
Jean Dubuffet a practionier of l' art brut considered the Renaissance (classical) concept of beauty "a specious and depressing notion, a legacy of Greece that had lost its value."
He is definitely referencing the classical concept of beauty and is challenging it on its own terms, by using its techniques and materials.
Jerusalem: 1
Greece: 0
edit: gender of artist corrected.Last edited by MosesPresley; September 15, 2005, 12:25."In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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Three statues of people who brought death and one of someone who created life. I like the contrast.Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard DawkinsComment
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I quite like it and have a hard time understanding why seemingly normal people are so against it. They seem to be the same people who complain that their local community centre have to 'waste' money on wheelchair ramps. "No one disabled ever goes there anyway"Comment
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It sounds like a surreal sight...I must pop past next time I am in that area
Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda SmithComment
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I just read Peter Triggs link. This is a temporary exhibit. That's kind of a shame, but it will make the area more vibrant and interesting."In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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I was about to make the point that while the statue may not be as ugly as everyone claims, the fact remains that she isn't an important leader or figure in British history, so doesn't deserve to be counted among the other statues there. Then I looked into who the other statues are actually of, and well.... you Brits have strange ideas of who to honor. They don't seem to be all that famous or important, especially for a spot like Trafalgar Square.
The only one with any claim to the spot is King George IV, cause at least he was king, but as far as I can tell he wasn't one of the most notable of your monarchs either.
So hell, put up a pregnant crippled woman, maybe she'll end up more famous than the other folks on there.Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012
When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - RahComment
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This is going way out on a conceptual limb here, but presuming that GB is a democracy and again presuming that everyone is equal in a democracy, so then doesn't it follow that a regular citizen deserves equal time on a pedestal.Originally posted by OzzyKP
the fact remains that she isn't an important leader or figure in British history, so doesn't deserve to be counted among the other statues there.
Originally posted by OzzyKP
So hell, put up a pregnant crippled woman, maybe she'll end up more famous than the other folks on there. 
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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Originally posted by Starchild
Three statues of people who brought death.
Is that how you guys think of Adm. Nelson?"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Depends on your understanding of democracy. There is an understanding that says people are equal in their political rights, but that its still appropriate to recognize distinction.Originally posted by MosesPresley
This is going way out on a conceptual limb here, but presuming that GB is a democracy and again presuming that everyone is equal in a democracy, so then doesn't it follow that a regular citizen deserves equal time on a pedestal.
"For I agree with you that there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi. But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missile death, bodily strength, like beauty, good humor, politeness and other accomplishments, has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction. There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government? The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent it's ascendancy. "
Thomas JeffersonLast edited by lord of the mark; September 15, 2005, 13:01."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Actually, I agree with MosesPresley. It is a tastefully and well done nude, and I find nothing at all distasteful or ugly about it. It is out of place, but as a piece of public art I would have no problem at all letting my little girl see it. She would probably say "Mommy milk."
The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.Comment
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I'd hit it
So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!Comment
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A building can be ugly. It is not human it is a construction. Many constructions are ugly. Calling a person ugly dehumanizes them.Originally posted by Patroklos
Just because someone thinks she is ugly doesn't mean they think they are not human. Alot of people who are not disabled are ugly to, and still human.
She is ugly. I would not want the sculture displayed for the same reason I don't like ugly buildings.
Ugliness in a human being is completely different. I do not want to put words in your mouth, but I think the sexuality is what you find ugly. This is a statue of a deformed woman in a sexual state; she is naked and pregnant.
It raises a difficult question; can a deformed woman have sex appeal? The obvious answer is yes. She is pregnant. Now if this sculpture starts a strange little film show in the observer’s head, then that shows more about that person than it does the art.
Camille Paglia in Sexual Persona says the Greek ideal of beauty was homoerotic. They idealized the beautiful boy. This concept carried over into the Renaissance and into contemporary advertising. We now have the ideal of the beautiful girl. I suppose this is due to the liberation of women. Maybe someone can help me out with this one.Originally posted by lord of the mark
The Greeks did have nude art, as a celebration of the perfection of human beauty. The Renaissance picked up and ran with that idea, and it was with us until the age of abstract art.
Well-formed sexually appealing youths are the accepted cultural definition of human beauty. Ugliness begins when form departs from the youthful ideal.
I think abstract art ultimately failed, because of its inherent lack of humanity. Over time it became little more than pretty designs used to augment dehumanized architectures.
I saw a woman on Jeopardy last night. She appeared ugly to me, but that was because of she had a Monica Lewinsky hairdo and was wearing a bizarre short-sleeved military styled blouse complete with epaulets. I am sure with a different hair-do and outfit; she would appear much more attractive.Originally posted by lord of the mark
Is this about disability, or about what a nude sculpture should be?
This is why artists use nude subjects. Fashion is of the moment and confuses the issue. Nudity shows the truth. Past fashions become absurd by contemporary standards. Can you imagine Michelangelo’s David with a pair of pantaloons?
I do not think it is so much about disability as it is about the sexual acceptance of the disabled. This sculpture challenges accepted definitions of beauty and sexuality."In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
I'd hit it
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry LimeComment
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