fyromian Independence Day

[KrazyHorse]

What I've learned from this thread:

a) Greeks are xenophobic bastards with inferiority complexes

b) Eventis sucks

[Winston]

Heh.

I think Markos' defensive attitude on the whole issue may be just a little bit counter-productive.

Few men have done more than he to spread the message of Macedonia's plight vis-a-vis those nasty Greeks.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes but we'll always have eurovision to counter that.

I think "Network 21" should re-activate (the embargo was a joke shouldn't have ended there) and just force the name change and be done with it . That way bandwidth would be preserved. Why were we the 3rd country with the most defense spending in the world in 2004 if we're not going to produce value out of it? every year we spend an olympiad in weapons and for what?
plus the internet would be hugelly decongested with that policy so we'd be helping technology advance too.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Winston
Few men have done more than he to spread the message of Macedonia's plight vis-a-vis those nasty Greeks.

true (and ironic)

Think about all the Canadians and US-ians who wouldn't have known about the controversy was it not for him.


And by the way, Greeks must have some outstanding lobbyists and diplomats with connections. The fact that Macedonia is admitted into UN under some other name is proof of that. I don't know for sure, but EU might have same policy with regard to its name in official documents. Yet all the individuals I have ever heard voice their opinion on the matter have supported Macedonians side. Except a few in this thread.

[Pekka]

SAGAPO!!

come on Bereta.. besides your new name is too difficult. I prefer paiktis Why don't you change it back? Or have an easier name.. like Greek Bastard or something that actually suits you

about Greece vs Macedonia, I just read a bit of story from the times of Alexander the Great. Do you know who humiliated him? Dioxippus.. he was this awesome fighter, like pankration super champ, olympic winner and stuff, and he totally dominated Coragus, the excuse of a fighter from Macedonia. They agreed to fight, one single fight, and everyone was cheering. Alexander the Great was there like the dude he is, watching, drooling those trained bodies.

Coragus camed fully equipped, with full combat armor, and weapons, javelin, spear and sword. Dioxippus came unarmored, and having only a club. Because he was the stud and he knew he could totally whoop the ground with his opponent, that was representing Macedonia and Alexander the Great.

Quickly, in matter of seconds, Dioxippus totally dominated the fight, dodging the javelin and breaking the spear with his club, threw him down with a great takedown and put his foot on him, standing while the weak ***** was on his back. Alexander yearned his body, so he said Dioxippus must spare his life.

AND then, they framed Dioxippus of a theft, leading him to commit a suicide later on. It was a conspiracy, and.. what can I say.. Legend from Greece, and that's how Macedonians, the barbarians and sore losers.. that's the way it was, that's the way it still must be.

Dioxippus must be avenged.

[Bereta_Eder]

I'll consider it seriously

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
b) Eventis sucks

I can't believe it, ANOTHER crazy site dedicated to spam. I thought counterglow was the only of its kind.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by VetLegion


true (and ironic)

Think about all the Canadians and US-ians who wouldn't have known about the controversy was it not for him.


And by the way, Greeks must have some outstanding lobbyists and diplomats with connections. The fact that Macedonia is admitted into UN under some other name is proof of that. I don't know for sure, but EU might have same policy with regard to its name in official documents. Yet all the individuals I have ever heard voice their opinion on the matter have supported Macedonians side. Except a few in this thread.

I think the greek side just presented them with the skopjia's constitution. having read about the "need to liberate" they backed greek positions and the need to at least try and curb that country's nationalistic fervor.

actuallly the very first EU/UN declaration totally backed the greek positions including a name other than macedonia. i mean a name that would not include that term in that.

after that it got complicated. skpjia run into huge problems with their albanians and gained lots of sympathy for its plight (including lots in grteece for that particular subjecT)

dont think it's easy on greece though. i think we're taking hit after hit after hit about this issue. but it is very very unimportant as an issue in the wider balkan agenda.

now papandreou made the embargo (Network 21 is an network in greek defense circles that calls for exploiting our weapons arsenal dynamically - not with wars but with putting pressure - not only increase deterance capabilities but also put pressure) and that totally isolated greece.

greece has gained absolutely no sympathy for that issue from noone. but it remains an important (well somewhat important) issue. there are many voices that question the rationality of such a stance in greek foreign policies.

but there are also a lot of people that will not take it too kindly if it was abandoned.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Az
FOPOG

[VetLegion]

I think the greek side just presented them with the skopjia's constitution. having read about the "need to liberate" they backed greek positions and the need to at least try and curb that country's nationalistic fervor.

I'm not buying this. It's the same UN that had two Chinas as members, or Taiwan as China and no China I forgot. Also, if they are so moral, why did they admit Armenia and a host of other countries with expansionistic claims.

Nah, UN couldn't care less. You simply have good diplomats and connections (or lots of bribe money). And in EU you're a member and can have your way against non-members.

[Provost Harrison]

Oh why not, it seems to be all the rage

[Winston]

There's no need to buy anything any Greek person has to say on this subject.

Originally posted by Bereta_Eder
actuallly the very first EU/UN declaration totally backed the greek positions

So when did they start issuing these EU/UN declarations?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by VetLegion

I think the greek side just presented them with the skopjia's constitution. having read about the "need to liberate" they backed greek positions and the need to at least try and curb that country's nationalistic fervor.

I'm not buying this. It's the same UN that had two Chinas as members, or Taiwan as China and no China I forgot. Also, if they are so moral, why did they admit Armenia and a host of other countries with expansionistic claims.

Nah, UN couldn't care less. You simply have good diplomats and connections (or lots of bribe money). And in EU you're a member and can have your way against non-members.

It's not that they are moral. The war in the balkans was raging at that time and you have a new country coming up with a constitution calling for "liberation" of territories from a neighbor, grasping its national symbols etc.
Would you risk flaming up the balkans even further?

of course you can believe what you want about our "great diplomacy" makes you cute

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Winston
There's no need to buy anything any Greek person has to say on this subject.



So when did they start issuing these EU/UN declarations?

You're right. Let's make it clear.

I'm talking about the first EU summit declaration that occupied itself with that issue.
There were 3 requests from greece and all three were backed by the summit's members.
those included first and outmost abolition of clauses in constitution calling for needs to liberate "south macedonia", then the abstinance of use of other countries national symbols and also the not use of a name that would include the term macedonia.


those were not binding towards skopjia. it was simply that. a EU declaration.

The UN just accepted the name that was temporarily agreed between greece and skopjia, which was and is Fyrom.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Winston
There's no need to buy anything any Greek person has to say on this subject.

I'm still waiting for axi to appear and defend the Greek position from the communist perspective