CanPol: Let's Get Ready to Ruuuumble!

[Sava]

Originally posted by Asher


You forget when you tried to invade Canada in the war of 1812, and failed.

so, a tie is not a defeat

[Tingkai]

McGuinty is a twit and I haven't seen any indication that Ontarians support his whining. A while ago he was complaining that Ontario paid too much in transfer payments. He ended being a lone whiner.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Asher


You forget when you tried to invade Canada in the war of 1812, and failed.

Don't take the bait, Asher.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither
We're talking about a Saudi Arabia (literally) contained within a state with 8 Moroccos and an Egypt (comparatively, for wealth comparison purposes). The disparity in wealth would reach a breaking point

Not quite. SA's GDP per cap is 3 times Morocco's or Egypt's. Not going to happen while there is free movement of Canadians across the country.

The RoC aren't exactly paupers, . There will continue to be greater relative economic activity in Alberta, but that will be levelled by large-scale population movement. You'll probably be talking Quebec-sized Alberta in 50 years' time, with a similar level of income disparity as there is today.

I fully support letting you have your oil revenues. They were promised to the province, we should leave them to the province. But equalisation payments are also part of the deal. I don't think Alberta has any right to complain about the current arrangement. Other countries take mineral royalties directly on the federal level. We let the provinces administer them and deman in return that the piper is paid through the equalisation scheme. There's no reason we shouldn't allow a certain amount of disparity to encourage movement to an area with greater opportunities, but we are also part of the same country, and need to remember that we are Canadians first.

[Kuciwalker]

Clearly you're Americans first

[KrazyHorse]

How many times do we have to say "bring it, *****" before you realise we're serious?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Not quite. SA's GDP per cap is 3 times Morocco's or Egypt's. Not going to happen while there is free movement of Canadians across the country.

We may soon be seeing royalties to the province of $10K+ per person per annum, and then the other factors like what our GDP does when we are pumping two and then three million bbd at $70 a barrel. This assumes, of course, that ~$40/barrel is the new low.

I think that is what has McGuinty making noises.

The RoC aren't exactly paupers, . There will continue to be greater relative economic activity in Alberta, but that will be levelled by large-scale population movement. You'll probably be talking Quebec-sized Alberta in 50 years' time, with a similar level of income disparity as there is today.

I fully support letting you have your oil revenues. They were promised to the province, we should leave them to the province. But equalisation payments are also part of the deal. I don't think Alberta has any right to complain about the current arrangement. Other countries take mineral royalties directly on the federal level. We let the provinces administer them and deman in return that the piper is paid through the equalisation scheme. There's no reason we shouldn't allow a certain amount of disparity to encourage movement to an area with greater opportunities, but we are also part of the same country, and need to remember that we are Canadians first.

I agree with some of that. but... the disparity stands to increase.

At the very least, I can't see how we should be getting anything back for education, health, or welfare if our prosperity goes beyond a certain point. Neither should any province that finds itself in similar circumstances.

However, the feds would not want to do it that way. An Alberta with no equalisation dollars coming back is an Alberta that can tell the feds to take a hike on just about any area of national policy, like the Canada Health Act.

[Kuciwalker]

You could slash taxes

[KrazyHorse]

If Alberta wants to keep paying into the equalisation plan and not take anything back in order to set up their health or educational systems then they're welcome to. More for the rest of us.

NYE< do you really think that it will stay 10K per person?

People move. Extra wealth in Alberta means more jobs in Alberta. More jobs mean more internal population movement to Alberta. That means more people, which means the pie needs to get cut into more slices.

It's a self-correcting process.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
You could slash taxes

Probably what Ralphie wants to do.

The Albertan Conservatives are going to get an unpleasant surprise when they realise that people who move to Alberta keep their old political stances, though.

We'll dilute the rednecks to the point of no return...

[notyoueither]

Well, I wish that all other Canadians saw it the way you do. I am led to believe they do not.

And then there's the dirty little secret that we haven't really seen dime one of royalties from the oil sands yet.

The real problem comes tomorrow, when $30 billion in royalties is low. $0.25 for every $ of the price of oil. $12.5 billion (at $50 pb) for every million bbd they pump from the oil sands. Talk is 3 to 5 million bbd. Added to other royalties that already amount to $8 billion a year.

It's just far to big a honey pot for Ottawa to stay out of.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Probably what Ralphie wants to do.

The Albertan Conservatives are going to get an unpleasant surprise when they realise that people who move to Alberta keep their old political stances, though.

We'll dilute the rednecks to the point of no return...

Did that a long time ago.

Funny thing, I listen to people who moved here ten and twenty years ago, and they say 'hell yeah, you guys got it right!'

[Asher]

Alberta has seen a surge in population over the past few decades and still remains hugely conservative.

Some people will retain their old political views, but slowly and surely most adopt the views of people here.

[KrazyHorse]

The RoC can stand on its own two feet. If Alberta gets relatively larger, then that's the nature of things.

We'll take what's due us from equalisation, and the rest will take care of itself. I can tell you right now that people who move to Alberta aren't going to generally be the type to want to cut themselves loose from Canada when their friends and family are still living there.

Alberta's giving us some growing pains. It'll settle down.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The RoC can stand on its own two feet. If Alberta gets relatively larger, then that's the nature of things.

We'll take what's due us from equalisation, and the rest will take care of itself. I can tell you right now that people who move to Alberta aren't going to generally be the type to want to cut themselves loose from Canada when their friends and family are still living there.

Alberta's giving us some growing pains. It'll settle down.

You act like cutting lose from Canada will make it impossible to travel between the two "countries". I doubt that'd be the case.

I have lots of relatives in the states as I do relatives in Ontario, it's actually easier to see the relatives in the States...

The fact that friends and family may be in a different political boundary doesn't really affect people much.