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CanPol: Let's Get Ready to Ruuuumble!

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  • CanPol: Let's Get Ready to Ruuuumble!


    Globeandmail.com > National > Article
    Klein steps up sabre-rattling on oil revenueBy KATHERINE HARDING AND PATRICK BRETHOUR

    Friday, August 26, 2005 Updated at 5:14 AM EDT

    From Friday's Globe and Mail

    Edmonton and Calgary — Alberta Premier Ralph Klein warned yesterday that politicians who consider themselves "great Canadians" will "keep your hands off" the western province's swelling coffers, which could see its surplus soar to $7-billion this year.

    "If they are the great Canadians that they profess to be, then they'll leave us alone and respect the Constitution," he said.

    "We are doing more than our fair share, so keep your hands off," Mr. Klein said, later adding that other provinces could keep up to Alberta by becoming more economically competitive.

    His warning was partly brought on by Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty's recent musing that Alberta's wealth is becoming "the elephant in the room" and that the growing regional economic disparity needs to be addressed.

    Prime Minister Paul Martin said this week that there are no plans to target Alberta's oil and gas royalties.

    But the topic has nevertheless become a sensitive political issue in the province.

    The front page of a local newspaper even carried a story yesterday with the provocative headline: "Is NEP junior in our future?" Many Albertans still blame the infamous 1980 National Energy Program for wreaking havoc on the province's economy in the 1980s.

    Mr. Klein said politicians outside Alberta should remember that the recent record-breaking oil prices aren't going to last forever and the money the province has reaped is theirs alone.

    "It's encouraging to hear the Prime Minister and [Finance Minister] Ralph Goodale say they aren't interested in raiding our resources and cashing in our royalty program in a second NEP," he added.

    Yesterday, Mr. Martin touched on the thorny topic again, saying: "This country was not built on jealousy. . . . This country was built on working together."

    Mr. Klein argued that his government is being prudent with its windfall and that he favours using cuts to both corporate and personal income taxes in the future to keep attracting workers and investment to Alberta.

    He said the idea still needs his party's support, but new tax cuts could be implemented as early as the spring.

    Recently, the Canada West Foundation, a western think-tank, warned against that strategy for fear it would disrupt the Canadian economy and set up Alberta as a "tax haven in the federation."

    Mr. Klein said that concern is unfounded because other provinces could keep up to Alberta by using incentives such as subsidies and loan guarantees.

    "The only incentive we have to sustain economic growth and prosperity is to have a very competitive tax regime," he said.

    The continuing rise in energy prices will make it easy for Alberta to cut corporate taxes. High oil and natural-gas prices have eaten through the energy sector's tax credits, built up in lean years when exploration spending outpaced revenue.

    The continuing rise in energy prices means Alberta can cut the tax rate and still collect much more revenue than in the past, said Greg Stringham, a vice-president at the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

    Mr. Stringham said he believes Alberta will reduce its corporate tax rate, currently 11.5 per cent, by a percentage point a year starting with the next budget, until it reaches 8 per cent. Alberta would then have the lowest corporate tax rate by far in the country, just over half that of Ontario's current 14-per-cent rate.


    There is a growing embarrassment of wealth in Alberta. With oil at $50USD+ per barrel for the foreseeable future, the 'problem' is just going to get worse.

    The premier of Ontario has begun the debate for the assault.

    Meanwhile, Klein is stuck on 'leave us alone'. I wonder if he has any clue what storm is about to break upon us.
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  • #2
    It would make my day if the Liberals tried to do another NEP.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #3
      As a canadian, this entire topic kinda embarrases me.

      As a quebecer, this entire topic kinda annoys me,

      as a 20 year old who is going to join the ranks of the most subsidized university students in North America, i'm blissful and dont care about any of western Canadas money or worries.
      Resident Filipina Lady Boy Expert.

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      • #4
        Some background info.

        Energy royalties are worth about $8 billion a year to the GoA. That will take off shortly as the oil sands royalty holidays (to pay for construction) and royalty credits to other sectors from lean times are exhausted and come to an end.

        Meanwhile, Alberta taxpayers pay in about $9 billion a year to equalisation (net). The governments of the RoC have been getting at least as much from Alberta's booming economy as the GoA gets directly from the 'oil'.

        Then there are the 'indirect' benefits. The 'indirect' benefits are actually the direct ones. They are jobs and money in the 'local' economy.

        There is massive spending going on to enlarge existing oil sands projects and bring new ones on stream. About half of that investment gets spent in the RoC to buy materials and equipment.

        Then there are the pay cheques that do not register in Alberta. People come in from Ontario and Newfoundland, work in camp for 6 months, and then go home with their share of the loot to enjoy the winter. They then come back next summer for another load. They do not register as residents of Alberta and their provincial taxes are paid to whereever they are from.

        Still, there is a river of cash, swollen with high oil prices, about to flood Alberta in an even greater sea of lucre.

        What should we do about it?
        (\__/)
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        • #5
          Give it to me.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by notyoueither
            Some background info.

            Energy royalties are worth about $8 billion a year to the GoA. That will take off shortly as the oil sands royalty holidays (to pay for construction) and royalty credits to other sectors from lean times are exhausted and come to an end.
            Yup. The oilsands right now are paying 1% royalties because of all of the construction they're still doing, it'll bounce up to 30-40% (!) within a few years (depending on the company).

            What should we do about it?
            Invest, invest, invest.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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            • #7
              Prime Minister Paul Martin said this week that there are no plans to target Alberta's oil and gas royalties.
              Yeah, right. Like I believe a single word spewed from a Liberal. They will grab as much of Alberta's oil wealth as they can get, as soon as they can get it. Probably the only thing holding them back right now is their thin hold on the government.

              McGuinty's latest whinging about becoming a have-not province is embarrassing to me as a resident of Ontario. We have a strong infrastructure, a skilled workforce, vast resources, and a close geographical connection to the huge American market. The only thing we lack is political leadership - and that is our own damn fault.

              I have always had disdain for Quebec's continual threats of separation - they would sink like a rock on their own. To the west, however, I give my full support if they should finally give central Canada the heave-ho.

              Just leave room for one more, guys, cause I am moving in with you.
              Long live the Dead Threads!!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Asher
                Invest, invest, invest.
                Invest where? Just in Alberta?

                I was thinking that a lot of good could be done by a regional or national investment regime to fund development at generous terms.

                To begin with, we could fund the development of greater infrastructure to open the outlets of the West to the Pacific.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by notyoueither
                  Invest where? Just in Alberta?

                  I was thinking that a lot of good could be done by a regional or national investment regime to fund development at generous terms.

                  To begin with, we could fund the development of greater infrastructure to open the outlets of the West to the Pacific.
                  Invest in the province (economic diversification, ample support to post-secondary education and huge tax incentives to draw talent and companies here).

                  Invest the money so it will grow and we'll have a massive "rainy day fund", just incase.

                  Invest in the roads and infrastructure and general education system.

                  Invest in health care. We want to live.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                  • #10
                    With oilsands royalty holidays coming to an end, and oil at $60-70 bucks a barrel, the GoA could soon have a surplus that equals the combined budgets of a couple of Maritime Provinces.

                    Either we are going to have to bring ourselves to spend some for the greater good, Asher, or the calls to help us do that through Ottawa will reach a deafening roar.

                    What Ninot said about embarassment really strikes home, to me. We, and Saskatchewan, are lucky sons of *****es at $40 a barrel. At $70 inequality will reach a tipping point. The feds will move in, unless... we address the situation ourselves.
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                    (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by notyoueither
                      With oilsands royalty holidays coming to an end, and oil at $60-70 bucks a barrel, the GoA could soon have a surplus that equals the combined budgets of a couple of Maritime Provinces.

                      Either we are going to have to bring ourselves to spend some for the greater good, Asher, or the calls to help us do that through Ottawa will reach a deafening roar.

                      What Ninot said about embarassment really strikes home, to me. We, and Saskatchewan, are lucky sons of *****es at $40 a barrel. At $70 inequality will reach a tipping point. The feds will move in, unless... we address the situation ourselves.
                      We can address the situation ourselves by giving the big fat finger to the Feds if they try to take what is legally ours.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Asher

                        Invest in the province (economic diversification, ample support to post-secondary education and huge tax incentives to draw talent and companies here).

                        Invest the money so it will grow and we'll have a massive "rainy day fund", just incase.

                        Invest in the roads and infrastructure and general education system.

                        Invest in health care. We want to live.
                        All good things to do, but do we need every penny of the $30 billion a year, or more, in royalties that the oil sands could eventually bring to spend on ourselves?

                        Tories (real ones) believe in something about an obligation to help those less fortunate out of duty, not compulsion. Why could we not offer help with regional development in other parts of Canada? Why should we wait for other to demand it? Why can't we be as wealthy in spirit as we are in material?
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                        • #13
                          We're talking about a Saudi Arabia (literally) contained within a state with 8 Moroccos and an Egypt (comparatively, for wealth comparison purposes). The disparity in wealth would reach a breaking point.

                          I do not know of another federal system with such a disparity. Maybe there is one, but I haven't heard of it.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by notyoueither

                            What should we do about it?
                            Where's an idea about what Kelin should do, give $ 1 Billion (or somthing like it) to the Victims of Katrine, (Not as from Canada, but from Alberta) and watch the fireworks in Ottawa. Not only will it help them, I would be funny to see what the rest of Canada would think.
                            Former President, Vice-president and Foreign Minister of the Apolyton Civ2-Democracy Games as 123john321

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                            • #15
                              Klien is simply creating a boogyman to hide his own dismal performance. There hasn't been ANY threat from the feds on this, in fact, they specifically deny having any designs on Alberts's wealth.
                              Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios

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