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**Agathon** · August 31, 2005, 12:56

Who cares about Creative anyway? They are going down the tubes.

**chequita guevara** · August 31, 2005, 13:07

Originally posted by Asher
Because consumers like choice.

Consumers like the illusion of choice.

**Kuciwalker** · August 31, 2005, 13:09

No, consumers like choice. They don't like the choice to be illusory. Do to the nature of illusion, though, they can't always tell the difference.

**chequita guevara** · August 31, 2005, 13:32

That amounts to the same thing.

**Kuciwalker** · August 31, 2005, 13:34

No it doesn't.

**Mercator** · August 31, 2005, 14:44

Oh, another Creative MP3 player question now we're at it. The system requirements they mention are always Windows something or other. Is that just for the software, or do they not even work as simple USB mass storage devices on Macs either? I'd need to be able to transfer data between Windows and Mac (not Just OS X) computers. Or would only the iPod work for that?

Originally posted by SpencerH
Is it 98 or 98se. win98 doesnt support usb but you can download usb support for 98se.

Yes it does. Win95 doesn't support USB. Win98 supports it just fine. I'm using Win98 (not SE) right now and my USB memory stick, USB webcam, USB wireless mouse and digicam with USB connection cord work fine the last time I checked.

The difference is that Win98/98se/me need drivers for USB mass storage devices to work, while on 2000/XP you don't need drivers anymore... What does happen is that the oldest drivers manufacturers provide are for Win98se. You can sometimes find "unofficial" drivers for those too, though.

**MarkG** · August 31, 2005, 14:58

For example, when a person selects the name of an artist, the player then displays a list of albums for that artist. Selecting the album name then brings up a list of the album's tracks.

what kind of idiot gave them a patent for that? doesnt he use windows?

hold on! a person on apolyton selects the name of a forum and the browser then displays a list of threads for that forum. the selecting the thread name brings up a list of the thread's posts, which you can read to it instantly (without hitting a play button)

where's my lawyer, i'm on my way to my next patent and an amazing amount of wealth (ok, ok, dan too

)

**Kuciwalker** · August 31, 2005, 15:12

what kind of idiot gave them a patent for that? doesnt he use windows?

Is windows a portable music playback device, or does it run on them?

**Mercator** · August 31, 2005, 15:20

If it's on a laptop, it is!

**MarkG** · August 31, 2005, 15:27

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

what kind of idiot gave them a patent for that? doesnt he use windows?

Is windows a protable music playback device, or does it run on them?

if he was a windows user he would see a very oftenly used program that displays hierchichal information on the contents of disk drives and other media....

**Kuciwalker** · August 31, 2005, 15:30

Did you read my post?

**MarkG** · August 31, 2005, 15:35

and this doesnt seem to be hold any water if it gets to the courts

posted as a comment on news.com

As a person who had navigated the patent system for some time, I believe the crucial lines in the story are, "Creative applied for the patent--which it has dubbed the "Zen Patent," named for its Zen music player--on Jan. 5, 2001." and "Creative first started using the interface in its Nomad Jukebox MP3 player, which began shipping in September 2000, according to the press release."

As I understand it a patent can't be valid if you are already selling a device which incorporates the supposed invention before the patent application is filed. You can't sell it and then patent it. You have to file for the patent then offer it for sale. (However, you can publicly discuss [not sell] an item based upon the invention for up to one year before you file for the patent.)

Patent examiners are so inundated at this time they often rely on what they are told by the patent applicant. If Creative did not explain to the patent examiner that they had already been selling a device which incorporates the invention they are attempting to patent then the examiner might have OK'd the patent and it got issued.

The only way patents like these are then thrown out is through the courts (some judge applying patent law and declaring the patent invalid by law) or someone going to the USPTO and explicitly showing that the patent was improperly issued. More often the former happens than the latter.

With so many using this "invention" in their portable systems someone will most certainly get this declared invalid.

**MarkG** · August 31, 2005, 15:38

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Did you read my post?

i thought you didnt get my windows reference

anyway, whether or not a new interface is used on a pc or a portable music device (which can describe a laptop or a windows-based phone or windows-based handheld) is/should be irrelevant....

**Kuciwalker** · August 31, 2005, 15:41

It's what the patent specifies, Markos.

**MarkG** · August 31, 2005, 15:46

so can i have a patent for the same interface for wearable music device?

Announcement

Creative awarded patent for MP3 player interface, one that the iPod uses

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