Why We Send Them Back

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
We should have open borders

No, we still want to have some control over who comes here.

What we actually need are enough visas for all of our jobs, plus tighter border security. Let teh good guys in legally, and then we can actually concentrate on teh bad guys; but in a situation where we first turn everyone into a bad guy, we have no way to do the job well.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
That's an interesting claim. The proportion of first-generation immigrants will increase because of low birth rates about white people?

It's a simple mathematical calculation, really.

If P¹=P°+B¹+I¹-D¹-E¹, where P=total pop, B=births, D=deaths, I=immigrants (1st gen only), and E=emigrants, then
pI = I¹/P¹ = proportion of immigrants to entire population.

Anything that decreases P¹ increases pI, correct, so long as I¹ does not decrease?

So any of the following result in an increase in net immigratant percentage:
*decrease in births (native or not)
* increase in immigrants, assuming (P°+B¹-D¹-E¹)>0 (which it is, excepting a total die-off of natives)
* increase in deaths
* increase in emigration (assuming emigration only counts native emigrants, not immigrants who then emigrate)

Pretty simple...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
No, we still want to have some control over who comes here.

I view that as basically impossible.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I view that as basically impossible.

Ask Kim Jong-Il. I'm sure he has some suggestions for ya on that regard.

[Kuciwalker]

I don't think we want to go that route.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I view that as basically impossible.

Total control is impossible. Some control is not.

Our current immigration policy is a lot like Prohibition. Knowing that booze, when drunk to excess by some people, can cause personal and social harm, we banned booze altogether; but since most people aren't harmed by drinking, that just drove good people to desperate measures, and created greater social harms (alcohol poisoning, rampant gangsterism) that existed before.

It's the same with immigration. We want to keep out bad immigrants, but have foolishly decided that the way to do that is to keep out nearly everybody (even though our economy needs immigrants). Good people are driven to desparate measures, and a greater overall social harm results. Meanwhile, border security is overtaxed because we've defined so many people as criminals, just as we did during Prohibition (and just as in Prohibition, the response is to just look the other way).

The goal of open doors and secure borders will never be perfectly achieved, but we can get a lot closer than we're getting now. More visas are the key.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by techumseh
Whatever. BTW, Kennedy was one of your best presidents, Krazyhorse.

( < note avatar )

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Our illegal immigration problem would be considerably lessened by having a sensible immigration policy to begin with.

The total number of visas available world-wide to those who want to come and work in the US is only a tiny fraction of the number that are actually needed. There's no reason for someone's Salvadoran landscape crew to be working illegally; clearly, America has jobs for them, so give them some damned visas! There's no reason for Philippine nurses to pretend to be visiting relatives on a tourist visa, and then run off and get a nursing job. We need nurses! Give her a damned visa!

People take to boats, or crawl across deserts, because they know there are jobs here and also know they don't have a chance in a million of getting to those jobs legally, through the visa process. Change the process -- first and foremost, by getting congress to increase the number of visas available world-wide -- and everybody wins (except xenophobes, but who cares?).

Emminently reasonable and the position of a solid portion of those who are tarred with the racism brush for demanding that we get some control over who gets to come to the U.S. and who doesn't. The problem is that the interest groups who benefit from the status quo are so far powerful enough to quash any serious attempts to improve things. On the right you have those who benefit from paying sub par wages with no benefits for dangerous or at least tedious work. On the left you have the La Raza and Peace and Justice people who think that there should be no controls whatever, and while they're at it no United States.

So anyone who backs a sensible approach in congress is called a racist repeatedly and sees "his" campaign contributions sent to his opponent.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Well, to be fair, Cuba's the only country of origin in the world from which refugee status is guaranteed to anybody who successfully crosses the straight.

Originally posted by Bosh

North Koreans too, but they really deserve it getting out of that hell hole.

Anyone who can swim the Pacific to Hawaii or the US West Coast is more than welcome to immigrate in my opionion. Makes the Cubans look like pansies.