nutjob deathmatch: Robertson VS Chavez!

[Winston]

Ah, I see it now. Never mind.

Anyway, ditch the paranoia. And maybe the rolleyes too, while you're at it.

I took a stab at Jackson because I'm tired to death of hearing him comment on everything on God's green earth in order to further his own personal standing among some people. He's a phony.

[chequita guevara]

It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


The blood of the catpialists and latifundia running in the streets.

AFAIC, Chavez is very likely going to be one of the most successful socialists in history. Since he didn't come to power via revolution, charges of him being a dictator don't stick, despite how much the right-wing flings it. The U.S. is too tied up in other wars to invade Venezuela, and their oil power makes an embargo political suicide for the U.S.

Yeah, cause you never become a dictator having once been elected, as Marcos and Fujimori among others showed. No we wont invade or embargo - that doesnt mean he'll be successful. Right now hes doing fine, with $67 a barrel oil. That gives you a lot of options.

[chequita guevara]

Anyway, I love how Robertson says he's being taken out of context and that he never said he called for Chavez's assassination, whan that's exactly what he said. He's such a ****ing tool.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Actually it is.

Or at least can be.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Yeah, cause you never become a dictator having once been elected, as Marcos and Fujimori among others showed.

He may become a dictator, but he shows no sign of being one yet. But you have people on these boards repeating reactionary lies and calling Chavez a dictator simply because he didn't resign because of a few marches and a possibly crooked election. If that's the case, what is Bush?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Actually it is.

Or at least can be.

Well, no. If they are out to get you, it isn't paranoia. However, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


He may become a dictator, but he shows no sign of being one yet. But you have people on these boards repeating reactionary lies and calling Chavez a dictator simply because he didn't resign because of a few marches and a possibly crooked election. If that's the case, what is Bush?

Human Rights Watch

Venezuela: Court Orders Trial of Civil Society Leaders
(Washington, July 8, 2005) — In ordering the trial of four civil society leaders on dubious charges of treason, a Venezuelan court has assented to government persecution of political opponents, Human Rights Watch said today.

The court has given the government a green light to persecute its opponents. Prosecuting people for treason when they engage in legitimate electoral activities is utterly absurd.


Yesterday, a court in Caracas ordered that María Corina Machado and Alejandro Plaz be tried on treason charges brought by a public prosecutor because their nongovernmental organization, Súmate, accepted foreign funds for a program that encouraged citizen participation in a referendum on President Hugo Chavez’s presidency in 2004. Two other Súmate leaders, Luis Enrique Palacios and Ricardo Estévez, will also be tried on charges of complicity with this alleged crime.

“The court has given the government a green light to persecute its opponents,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “Prosecuting people for treason when they engage in legitimate electoral activities is utterly absurd.”

Machado and Plaz have been charged under article 132 of the Venezuelan Penal Code with “conspiracy to destroy the nation’s republican form of government.” If convicted, they face up to 16 years in prison.

Súmate engaged in voter outreach and education that encouraged participation in a national referendum to determine whether Chávez should remain in office. The Venezuelan Constitution establishes that elected officials can be subject to recall referendums solicited by at least 20 percent of the corresponding electorate. Chávez won the August referendum by a substantial margin.

The prosecution charged Machado and Plaz with violating Article 132 by receiving financial support for their referendum-related activities from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), an organization which is itself financed by the U.S. Congress. According to the NED, Súmate received US$31,150 which was used for workshops to educate citizens regarding Venezuela’s constitutional referendum process.

[Winston]

If they do get you, it doesn't matter if it's paranoia.

[lord of the mark]

HRW:

Venezuela: Curbs on Free Expression Tightened
(Santiago, March 24, 2005) — Amendments to Venezuela’s Criminal Code that entered into force last week may stifle press criticism of government authorities and restrict the public’s ability to monitor government actions, Human Rights Watch said today.

By broadening laws that punish disrespect for government authorities, the Venezuelan government has flouted international human rights principles that protect free expression.

“By broadening laws that punish disrespect for government authorities, the Venezuelan government has flouted international human rights principles that protect free expression,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “While countries across Latin America are moving to repeal such laws, Venezuela has enacted further restrictions on the press that will shield officials from public scrutiny.”

The amendments extend the scope of existing provisions that make it a criminal offense to insult or show disrespect for the president and other government authorities. Venezuela’s measures run counter to a continent-wide trend to repeal such “disrespect” (or “desacato”) laws. In recent years, Argentina, Costa Rica, Paraguay, and Peru have already repealed such laws, and other countries like Chile and Panama are currently considering legislation that would do so.

The human rights bodies of the United Nations and of the Organization of American States have repeatedly urged states to repeal such provisions.

The president, vice-president, government ministers, state governors and members of the Supreme Court are already protected from disrespect under the law. The new provisions extend this protection to legislators of the National Assembly, members of the National Electoral Council, the attorney general, the public prosecutor, the human rights ombudsman, the treasury inspector, and members of the high military command.

Anyone convicted of offending these authorities could go to prison for up to 20 months. Anyone who gravely offends the president, on the other hand, can incur a penalty of up to 40 months in prison.

Other amendments increase the penalties for defamation and libel. Penalties for defamation have been increased from a maximum of 30 months of imprisonment to a new maximum of four years if the statement is made in a document distributed to the public. Those convicted would also have to pay a fine of up to 2,000 tax units (currently equivalent to more than US$ 27,000). The penalty for libel rises from a maximum jail term of three months to a new maximum of two years.

These changes to the criminal code follow a Law on the Social Responsibility of Radio and Television, which entered force in November and imposes wide-ranging administrative restrictions on radio and television broadcasting.

“These new provisions add to the arsenal of press restrictions already at the government’s disposal,” Vivanco said. “By further criminalizing criticism of government authorities, these laws will restrict the public’s ability to monitor abuse by those in power.”

[chequita guevara]

So the U.S. is a dictatorship for engaging in political harrassment of dissidents? Besides, it's a crime in the U.S. to accept foreign funds for political work. Who are we to criticize Venezuela for doing the same thing?

Furthermore, HR's credentials aren't terribly good with me. They supported Plan Columbia.

[Boris Godunov]

So today, Robertson denied he said these things, and now has apologized for saying the things that he previously denied saying. How can anyone give this man an ounce of credibility now?

[chequita guevara]

Yep, HRW continues to show it's beholden to capital.

[Winston]

At least he's trying to do the right thing. It's just so hard to figure out what is the right thing to do.

[Berzerker]

"I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out.' And 'take him out' can be a number of things, including kidnapping; there are a number of ways to take out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted by the AP [Associated Press], but that happens all the time," Robertson said on "The 700 Club" program.

Yeah, yeah, take him out to dinner...thats what I meant...yeah, thats the ticket...

Oh Pat, you said Chavez believes the CIA has tried to assassinate him and you think its a mis-interpretation to maintain the context of assassination you just established prior to telling us we need to take him out in the very next sentence? Yup, Pat's a lawyer...