Woot! America's Navy #1 !

[Mr. Harley]

No - I think their service in the Navy is good enough, Drake - as usual you parse and distort, cut out pertinent sections are only ask leading "Have you stopped beating your wife" questions.

My actual statement was

...- and I also repeat, any of them that are gung-ho about Iraq could redeploy as Corpman, the Navy has a big push for that. Just a thought.

The option is there. If they are gung-ho (you DO understand what gung-ho means, sort of like certain armchair rah-rah types here) over Iraq - and I only know of one of our navy people I am sure is as gung-ho as you are - then that person has this option, and in fact their own service, the Navy, is ENCOURAGING it, and will reward them if they do. If they do not exercise this option, with it's encouragement, and rewards - again, based on those actions one can draw one's own conclusions.

By the way, have YOU made contributions to the fund being raised by army families to make sure that all the troops have body army, etc? Have you voted for higher taxes, or at least called your representatives (I am not sure if you are a US expat, I am assuming that) to encourage them, that are totally earmarked for our military. Maybe a 1% "for the troops" surcharge? Hippocracy takes many forms.

And since I know how your typical response/attack mode works - I have done volunteer work with both handicapped and abused children, both of which are very dear to me. I also looked into the Guard but there were problems, including my 13 plus diopter correction, plus 2.25 diopter astigmatism. Look up diopter if you don't understand the problem.

[Ted Striker]

Yep, here we go with the Reactionary distortions again.

Cut it out and be honest Drake, that's not even close to what Shawn said.

[binTravkin]

This thread stinks of chauvinism and brainwashed militarists and I laugh at it like this:

Especially I liked the arguments why US is not going the militant empire path.

Does it really to take to be a non-american or apparently very highly educated person (as Shawnmmcc appears to be) to see the obvious?

I guess all reasonable people should forget this thread as US brainwashing industry seems to work so well people believe in US at least as zealously as some believe in Islam.


It does not take to know many things about the military or any other technology any country has, to see where it's heading.

It just takes to know the pattern.
And the pattern is there and Im not the only one who sees it.


And in the aftermath, Patroklos, don't you think that if I asked this same question to most of your army collegues, they'd answer the same?
Why?
Because it's the official opinion of your government and you've been fed it so efficently, you don't even recognise that you don't have your own opinion anymore!

The Matrix has you..

[Mr. Harley]

binTravkin - now you are not being totally fair. Count the number of USA posters that are opposed to this war and the Bush administration (seriously - you will see a big majority oppose it), and you we will see that the people of the USA are not that bad, not even a majority of our voters, at least in 2000 (nobody got the majority that year). I know Bush is in charge of our country, and his administration is the face of the USA the rest of the world sees - but hey, we all don't want Intelligent Design taught in our Science classrooms.

The problem is that our Repulican version of Democracy heavily disenfranchises those who do not win elections, which usually only requires a plurality. Add in the gerrymandering issue - how our politicians on both side create artificial boundaries for voting districts - and you will understant why I state the US has limited Democracy. I am beginning to wish we were Parliamentary, though that has its disadvantages to.

[binTravkin]

Well, actually my point was to forget this thread as most opponents to what I and you post here seem to be persons with invincible faith in the US and the course it's taking.

I do not intend to insult the US people, I rather have pity on most of them as they're living under such system where you can go either to one extreme or another (talking about the disenfrachising of opposition) and where their children are being fed heavy propaganda daily, be it state schools or simply (censored and full of misinterpreted facts) cable television.

If I was US citizen and was aware of all this, I'd most probably move out to some country where I can breathe more freely.

And frankly speaking - with the figures standing behind Bush and his administration (it's easy to see that oil and war industries have particular interest in such policies), I don't see how the opposite party would make something really different.
It's all about money and half of the people get fooled by all those extensive election campaigns.

Politics is a big business in Latvia as well, but here the government does not do a lot harm in going selfish and cruel.
In US where everything is about government and government is everywhere (all those agencies, some secret some not so, the hi tech monitoring stuff and the like), it makes a real difference.
I think I don't have to tell you where the difference lies, over the last 8 years the life of almost each and every US citizen has changed, even if it's only the economical aspect which did.

[Mr. Harley]

binTravkijn - that's one reason why we gave up television when we had our little girl, and we are considering home schooling, or a Jewish or Catholic school (in the US both are pretty good about focusing on teaching, not propoganda except some religion, and you can have your child opt out of those classes) if we can afford it.

[Patroklos]

And in the aftermath, Patroklos, don't you think that if I asked this same question to most of your army collegues, they'd answer the same?
Why?
Because it's the official opinion of your government and you've been fed it so efficently, you don't even recognise that you don't have your own opinion anymore!

Yeah, I certainly see no reason to believe the people involved in the process and have actually been to Iraq and the ME over you, who have been sitting at your keyboard eating Doritos for your entire life.

Armchair Generals

And before you answer, think real hard about who here sounds like an ideologue

[Patroklos]

that the Navy is pushing for regular enlisted personnel to change their slot and go on active duty in Iraq. Draw your own conclusions - they have the option.

I am not sure why you see something wrong with the military trying to funnel resources to do their job. Of course they are asking for volunteers for Iraq, thats where the fighting is!

And while the leftist fundamentalists are fixated on Iraq (thats what they are told to do) , the vast majority of our military is evolved equally in combating terrorism and other things all over the world. I spent most of my last deployment off Kenya and Somolia doing all kinds of things you will never hear about. JUST as important as Iraq. Don't let the media fool you into thinking Iraq has somehow sucked up all our resources.

And always remember, we are still operting as a peace time military.

[binTravkin]

Yeah, I certainly see no reason to believe the people involved in the process and have actually been to Iraq and the ME over you, who have been sitting at your keyboard eating Doritos for your entire life.

Well, I even don't know what Doritos is..

And talking about people being involved in the process - I was thinking that this thread was about your navy and things related, not Iraq.
Should have missed something..

When you quote some official source it's not "talking to people who had been there".

Also when you pretend that that or other device in your equipment is "technically superior to anything anyone else has" it sounds just as you've read it from some "official source" and are believing in it with all your heart.

Are you one hundred missiles to have tested AEGIS efficency to a level of one percent?
Have you even had the one hundred missiles flying at your AEGIS (I deduce it from your posts) equipped ship?
No?
Then STFU and don't talk things like "talking to people who have been there, seen that blahblahblah"!

Noone has seen how exactly your hi-tech equipment works in wartime because the nations who have the hi-tech counter-equipment don't go to war with US due to one reason - nukes, not any particular AEGIS or other shiny sh^t!


We have seen how your military tactics and overall geopolitical strategy work though and it seems that something's gone wrong, haven't it?
Vietnam anyone? Iraq anyone?

Armchair Generals

Brainwashed cannonfodder

And before you answer, think real hard about who here sounds like an ideologue

Well, yes I am a member of people who advertise "the ideology of free thought and private opinion" over "brainwashed patriotism and zealous believing in what you've been told from above" and I don't care how do I sound as long as I don't sound so suspiciously similar to official propaganda (read "lies") and opinion as you do.

The difference is that I've been able to look at what's happening from several aspects and I am aware of more idealogies than you have ever been.
You seem to have only one viewpoint and only one "true" ideology.

binTravkijn - that's one reason why we gave up television when we had our little girl, and we are considering home schooling, or a Jewish or Catholic school (in the US both are pretty good about focusing on teaching, not propoganda except some religion, and you can have your child opt out of those classes) if we can afford it.

Bingo!
You have to send your child in religious school just because the official propaganda is even worse.
If I was in your place I'd feel very bad about either choice.
I hope you'll be able to afford some open-minded student teaching your children.

[Patroklos]

Well, I even don't know what Doritos is..

It is what made you fat, and also probobly why you irrationally hate us uber hot in shape military guys. Then again, I am in the Navy...

When you quote some official source it's not "talking to people who had been there".

If I had done this, I would certainly be in jail. Everything I have posted is easily verified from Janes (not even an American source). If you have issues with them, well, your done.

And talking about people being involved in the process - I was thinking that this thread was about your navy and things related, not Iraq.
Should have missed something..

A the topic changed, so did my comments. However, the same thing applies to the OP since I am in the Navy and you are not. I have actual experience about what I am taking about, you do not.

Also when you pretend that that or other device in your equipment is "technically superior to anything anyone else has" it sounds just as you've read it from some "official source" and are believing in it with all your heart.

"The probelm with being better than everyone else is that people assume you are pretencious."

Fortunelty for me China and Iran agree with me, not you.

Are you one hundred missiles to have tested AEGIS efficency to a level of one percent?
Have you even had the one hundred missiles flying at your AEGIS (I deduce it from your posts) equipped ship?
No?
Then STFU and don't talk things like "talking to people who have been there, seen that blahblahblah"!

Yes, we do it once a week. It is one of the best things about the AEGIS system. And it is Aegis; the letters don't stand for anything.

Noone has seen how exactly your hi-tech equipment works in wartime because the nations who have the hi-tech counter-equipment don't go to war with US due to one reason - nukes, not any particular AEGIS or other shiny sh^t!

The reason they don't go to war with us is because they DONT have hi-tech counter equipment, and the know it.

We have seen how your military tactics and overall geopolitical strategy work though and it seems that something's gone wrong, haven't it?
Vietnam anyone? Iraq anyone?

Both overwhelming military victories. The failures are all political, that is exactly what Vietnam proved.

and I don't care how do I sound as long as I don't sound so suspiciously

Thats good. Hopefully you don't care about everyone laughing at you either. I would suspect since it must be a regular occurrence, and you have so far not killed yourself, you don't.

The difference is that I've been able to look at what's happening from several aspects and I am aware of more idealogies than you have ever been.
You seem to have only one viewpoint and only one true ideology.

Yes, the ever valuable "zit faced D&D addict" aspect, and my favorite, the "virgin computer dork" perspective.

Now please, excuse yourself, grown ups are talking here.

[binTravkin]

It is what made you fat

Surpisingly for you I might be in better shape than you are as I've been a good sportsman since secondary school.

Yes, the ever valuable "zit faced D&D addict" aspect, and my favorite, the "virgin computer dork" perspective.

Yeah, whatever.
You're such typical militarist.
We have such persons in Latvia as well, in fact one of my friends become such after 1.5 yr in the army.
You know what - they are the ones who're laughed at for their cute expressions like the above one.

Both overwhelming military victories.

I couldn't hold quoting this..

Have you actually ever read a history book?
Do you know what it is?
Do you know what is a history book from a more independent source than pensioned US army/navy general?

Now please, excuse yourself, grown ups are talking here.

Shape it to something more original and I'll insert it into my sig.
Actually there are two aspects of growing-up - the physical and the mental one.
The mental one includes having your own opinion.
In that pane I seem to be above you after reading all your "we are doing the right thing" posts.

[Patroklos]

Surpisingly for you I might be in better shape than you are as I've been a good sportsman since secondary school.

Really, your out of secondary school? Lativia's education system must be awesome

e have such persons in Latvia as well, in fact one of my friends become such after 1.5 yr in the army.

I would imagine anyone who became educated in military topics through study and experiance would disagree with you.

Do you know what is a history book from a more independent source than pensioned US army/navy general?

Navy Generals ??? (On second thought, you didn't deserve this insult and I retract it)

EDIT: Removed unconstructive insult.

[binTravkin]

Really, your out of secondary school? Lativia's education system must be awesome

Well, in Latvia a 21 yr old person is usually at the 3rd course at University.
Were you at secondary at your 21?

I would imagine anyone who became educated in military topics through study and experiance would disagree with you.

There's nothing to study. If you know the type of people you recognise them even before talking to them.
It can even be seen in their eyes that they think that they're superior to anyone as they're the "warriors" or "fighters" or something equally immature.
And their speech is the exactly the self-righteous and zealous kind you are presenting here.

Navy Generals ??? Dumbass

Didn't really get your point here, apart from the obvious insult, but I take it's a negative answer on my question about your history knowledge (apart from that brainwashing of course ).
Well, not any surprise to me after you claiming Vietnam was an overhelming victory.

[binTravkin]

Ah, yes I get the general thing. Well I didn't care to list all the proper naval rankings as opposed to army ones.
It's just not the thing we are talking here about.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by binTravkin

Well, actually my point was to forget this thread as most opponents to what I and you post here seem to be persons with invincible faith in the US and the course it's taking.

I do not intend to insult the US people, I rather have pity on most of them as they're living under such system where you can go either to one extreme or another (talking about the disenfrachising of opposition) and where their children are being fed heavy propaganda daily, be it state schools

My child attended public school. They covered current affairs in social studies, and had apparently fairly vigorous discussions. Opposition to current govt policies was not at all discouraged, as far as i can tell. Frankly you dont know what youre talking about american public schools.

or simply (censored and full of misinterpreted facts) cable television.

almost half of US households dont even have cable TV. And cable has several news networks, with different points of view. And none are censored by the govt - if you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.



[q]In US where everything is about government and government is everywhere [/q}

Again, you really dont know what youre talking about.

(all those agencies, some secret some not so, the hi tech monitoring stuff and the like), it makes a real difference.

Are you talking about the NSA? do you know what youre talking about?

I think I don't have to tell you where the difference lies, over the last 8 years the life of almost each and every US citizen has changed, even if it's only the economical aspect which did.

Since 1997? What is special about 1997? Of course life changes, thats what happens in life, its always changing. What else are you talking about?