Woot! America's Navy #1 !

[Dis]

yes

there is the possibility the military is lieing about the effectiveness of it. Only one way to find out.

The AEGIS weapon system is the most capable surface launched missile system the Navy has ever put to sea. It can defeat an extremely wide range of targets from wave top to directly overhead. AEGIS is extremely capable against anti-ship cruise missiles and manned aircraft flying in all speed ranges from subsonic to supersonic. The AEGIS system is effective in all environmental conditions having both all-weather capability and demonstrated outstanding abilities in chaff and jamming environments. AEGIS brings a revolutionary, multi-mission combat capability to the US Navy. AEGIS equipped ships are capable of engaging and defeating enemy aircraft, missiles, submarines and surface ships.

[binTravkin]

How good there are no wars..

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Dis
you don't think our society is decadent?

Depends. Here's what I consider "decadent" in your society:
- your militarism
- your large swathes of holier-than-thou "family values" people
- your constant striving for an enemy
- your absurd paranoia when it comes to domestic safety (war on drugs)
- your terrible lack of public help toward the poor and the destitute

But I think it's not the meaning we often attribute to "decadence" I would suspect that most people who yell that America is decadent (be they Phelps or Bin Laden) hate the idea of a country where gay people can live a fulfilling lovelife, where the law of the jungle is tamed, where problems are solved with thought intead of the immediate use of force.

That's the kind of decadence I wish for you Yanks. And I think that dropping the militarism and the constant striving for an enemy will help you achieve it.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


These would by flying cars?

You know Kuci, you are boring beyond belief. Pedantic without humour. I was referring to their appearance rather than what land on them. Get a life

[Alexander's Horse]

Submarines are the true measure of military power at sea amongst the great powers today

but the aircraft carrier is still the most powerful force projection and foreign policy tool

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Dis


*cough*recent (2001) war in Afghanistan*cough*

Wasn't most of the bombing done with those B2's, from... Diego Carcia or something?

Or...


BBC: USS Britain Commissioned

[Mr. Harley]

Saras - could you please post a link on that. I had never considered that comparison, and I assume you have done some of the original research.

binTravkin - Hi, guy. My meds are working mostly, as you can see from my very sporadic posting. I've had a series of good days, but I'm feeling pretty dead again this morning. When I can become reliable again I'll resume PBEM. I wanted to see how the thread went, otherwise I'd be in bed.

You make a very good point about the Soviet mach speed guided missles. Very scary, and nobody has ever tested current ship defense systems against them. Add some world class electronics, either via a Western European partner or even the Chinese, and they will end up being DEADLY. The US navy was very concerned in the 1980's, read Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy about possible outcomes.

The Chinese did that with their improvements on the Styx series to the Silkworms, which are not a weapon to be dismissed lightly. True, they can be intercepted, but if even one gets through a modern Supercarrier is probably the only ship that would survive the first hit.

AH - very succinct one line summary (something I'm not that good at ).

Submarines are the true measure of military power at sea amongst the great powers today

but the aircraft carrier is still the most powerful force projection and foreign policy tool

ALOT of people forget that, at their own and their country's risk.

Of course China is going to build them. Just like the Cold War USA, they want to project power to protect resources and further political aims. They are definitely playing the Great Game of today's world, and later on in this century it may be the EU versus China, if the US doesn't get it's economic house in order. As I keep reminding people, Argentina was the 8th largest economy in the world about a century ago. Mismanagement can wreck a modern economy.

[binTravkin]

but the aircraft carrier is still the most powerful force projection and foreign policy tool

There was a saying that if a person holds a baseball bat, he looks more dangerous than while yielding a gun..

[Az]

Originally posted by dannubis


from whom ?

and who wants to be saved ?

From religious dogma, from example. ( and america better start with itself )

And you don't have to want to be saved to deserve to be saved. If one was in a closed box, living a life of relative misery, but had no knowledge of the outside world, and didn't want to be saved, because he didn't know such a possibility existed, do you think that that person should've been left in the box?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Thailand?!? Freaking Thailand?

[binTravkin]

there is the possibility the military is lieing about the effectiveness of it. Only one way to find out.

The AEGIS weapon system is the most capable surface launched missile system the Navy has ever put to sea. It can defeat an extremely wide range of targets from wave top to directly overhead. AEGIS is extremely capable against anti-ship cruise missiles and manned aircraft flying in all speed ranges from subsonic to supersonic. The AEGIS system is effective in all environmental conditions having both all-weather capability and demonstrated outstanding abilities in chaff and jamming environments. AEGIS brings a revolutionary, multi-mission combat capability to the US Navy. AEGIS equipped ships are capable of engaging and defeating enemy aircraft, missiles, submarines and surface ships.

You make a very good point about the Soviet mach speed guided missles. Very scary, and nobody has ever tested current ship defense systems against them. Add some world class electronics, either via a Western European partner or even the Chinese, and they will end up being DEADLY. The US navy was very concerned in the 1980's, read Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy about possible outcomes.

The Chinese did that with their improvements on the Styx series to the Silkworms, which are not a weapon to be dismissed lightly. True, they can be intercepted, but if even one gets through a modern Supercarrier is probably the only ship that would survive the first hit.

Thanks for the helping hand, Shawnmmcc, was lazy to search for those myself..

And Dis, you might some day discover that your and any other country's government is broadcasting more lies than you ever thought.
Especially about it's military power.

You can have a good similarity in little boys' boasting who has the richest father, strongest brother etc.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Dis


not likely. India wasn't too impressive in their war with China in 62.

India probably can't get too frisky with anyone else as long as they have Pakistan as a potential hostile. If India ever got embroiled with China for instance, Pakistan might see that as an opportunity to make a move.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by binTravkin



There was a saying that if a person holds a baseball bat, he looks more dangerous than while yielding a gun..

Well, that is quite an apt comparision in a place where people would be quite reluctant to use a gun. Subs generally only carry with them the threat of certain nuclear annihilation.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by binTravkin

Thanks for the helping hand, Shawnmmcc, was lazy to search for those myself..

And Dis, you might some day discover that your and any other country's government is broadcasting more lies than you ever thought.
Especially about it's military power.

You can have a good similarity in little boys' boasting who has the richest father, strongest brother etc. [/QUOTE]

But here the boast can be useful if enough possible enemies believe it. Its like the "tough kid" at school that never has to fight because everyone "knows" he is toughest. That only works as long as people believe the story.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Az
No, no, of course not. But this is the paradox:

If there is such a force, it is threatening to US NAVY carriers.
If there is no such force, these carriers aren't really needed.

I can't really argue that the US NEEDS as many carriers as it has. But if they wish to continue to have the ability to project force anywhere in the world without the necessity of land bases, carriers do provide this ability.