Going to college unready for it

[Odin]

Originally posted by Smiley
Here's an idea - if high school isn't teaching anything and everyone needs a college degree, why not compress the lack of curriculum into 9 years, and have people go to college after junior high?

I like this idea, athough I don't thing parents, especially overprotective and/or very socially conservative ones, would go along with sending thier kids off to college at age 14. But it may be the only way, because many schools, especially rural ones like my former K-12 school, wouldn't have the resources, or number of students (There were only around 80-90 people total in grades 9-12 in my rural school, as opposed to colleges who have thousands of students) to have the great variety of classes a college or tech school would have.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You know, ever since conservatives started trying to "fix" public education, it's been getting poorer and poorer results. Is there anything these people can do right?

come on, you know you dont need an education to be able to join the army right? That's the 'education program' i think

[rah]

Most parents couldn't afford to send there kids to college for 9 years. Even if tuition was subsidized, there is still a considerable expense for room and board.

This would hurt middle to low income people the most and would probably be labeled racist.

[:) Smiley]

Not all colleges are traditional four-year institutions; there are thousands of community colleges and for-profit institutions such as the University of Phoenix. The majority of college students live at home and commute. Likewise if a 9 years and then college system were implemented, most people would be going to colleges in the local area.

Rural students would still be screwed, but at least we have online learning today.

[Az]

More online learning

I can't wait for the day that all students and pupils will be given free laptops. I am not for disbanding the classroom, I just think that more content should be written and read from computers, instead of wasteful books and notebooks that hurt the kids' backs.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Still, this whole discussion may be off-base (at Poly? I'm shocked, shocked! . Over half the students currently in college are non-traditional students; that is, the model of college whereby an 18-year-old graduates from high school and immediately begins four years of collegiate study is no longer the dominant model of attending college in the US. Whether a high school student is ready for college, then, may not be a relevant question.

From a personal perspective, I loved teaching non-traditional students: they had real-world experience that could be brought to bear on classroom discussions, and "real life" had given them life skills (like the ability to meet deadlines and do work without whining about it) that any professor would love.

Still, I taught an awful lot of kids who weren't ready for college-level work.

[:) Smiley]

Originally posted by Az
More online learning

I can't wait for the day that all students and pupils will be given free laptops. I am not for disbanding the classroom, I just think that more content should be written and read from computers, instead of wasteful books and notebooks that hurt the kids' backs.

San Francisco has approved a charter school that is entirely internet based. Students are given all the necessary goodies; work is graded by real teachers elsewhere, perhaps a solution to high housing costs pricing teachers out of San Francisco.

[Az]

Nah, I still approve of teacher-student interaction, and recognize the importance of kids socializing IRL in a controlled enviroment. This sort of stuff kinda lacks it all. My plan for education is to:

a) replace all books and notebooks with a touchscreen writable laptop.
b) introduce the most efficient techniques for the learning of math and science basics, and investing into more research in the area.
c)More general literature education with the emphasis of introducing the kids to more works of art. ( not just literary art, but film, painting and music, classic and contemporary)
d) Introducing general skills teaching ( oldschool shop, some outdoors, manners, and sex ed)
e) more physical education.

In an age of parents who care less and less, a parent-state for kids may be the only way to go. It's the implimentation of the emphasis on quality in the education system conveyor belt.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

And stop blaming teachers again Sikander.

I didn't even start blaming them.

[Ted Striker]

You said they were of "lower quality" and attributed this to your unfounded more women in the workforce theory.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
You said they were of "lower quality" and attributed this to your unfounded more women in the workforce theory.

It's not unfounded, it's accepted wisdom. Someone in a panel discussion on education on the Newshour said the same thing and none of the other 3 guests lodged any objection. It's a simple fact. At one time teaching and nursing were the best available professions for most educated women. After WW2 a lot of professions were gradually opened to women, and women took advantage of the opportunities. This diluted the talent pool for the teaching profession while increasing the talent pool for many others.

[Ted Striker]

Simple fact, okay.

The problem with that theory is that this same "talent pool" of educated women is now directly competing with the entire labor force, thus squeezing them out of their own fields. So you have people coming out of other fields and into teaching, instead of lifelong teachers.

On top of that, there is the increased opportunity for minorities to become teachers, so it's really a wash.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by rah
And sometimes it's not the school but the attitude of the student that counts. A good student will find a way to succeed at a below average school. A bad student will fail no matter how good the school is.

Mediocre students are turned into good ones at a good school and into bad ones at a bad school.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Simple fact, okay.

The problem with that theory is that this same "talent pool" of educated women is now directly competing with the entire labor force, thus squeezing them out of their own fields. So you have people coming out of other fields and into teaching, instead of lifelong teachers.

Except that women weren't in many other fields. Unless you're saying women who would be secretaries or nurses are now teachers...

[rah]

Only if they want to or don't want to.
A great teacher may be able to motivate a student, but a school in general doesn't.
Now if you said a mediocre student can be turned into a good one, I'd be more likely to agree with you.