Plane chrashed in Greece, unclear circumstances

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Mercator

You didn't read the article you posted?

Actually, no - just looked over it briefly, because I read first about it on a German news site and then looked quickly for something to post here in English....

Of course, there is still the question why they chrashed when they had in fact those masks. I don't think the loss of pressure could have been so fast when at least one of the passengers had the time to send a message out. And then there's the question why the pilots didn't try to go on a lower altitude (or why they couldn't)......

[BlackCat]

According to a local expert in the radio (yeah, I know you guys don't belive such rumors and want links ) the masks probably didn't didn't work - that is, they didn't give oxygen - and when they figured that out it was too late.

It's breathing masks, not gasmasks. You KNOW when a gas mask don't work properly - you can't breathe - but those in airplanes still give acces to the air in the cabin.

[mrmitchell]

They just had another news article. 121 dead, 48 of those children.

Finding the article...slightly unrelated question:

Has there ever been a plane incident in which the masks that drop from the ceiling have made a difference?

[Dis]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I would prefer becoming sleepy and losing conciousness then dieing to a physically painful death. but that's just me.

I don't think dying in a plane crash is all that painful. It probably happens too fast. Unless you are burned alive. That always sucks.

[mrmitchell]

121 killed in Greek air crash

Associated Press
Sunday August 14, 2005

Guardian Unlimited

All 121 passengers and crew were killed when a Cypriot airliner crashed into a mountainous area near Athens today after the pilots apparently fell unconscious after a drop in cabin pressure.
The only piece of Helios Airways flight ZU522 that remained intact was the tail section of the jet and debris was strewn in a chasm and surrounding hills.

Bodies, clothing, and luggage were scattered around the wreckage, which triggered brush fires.

The flight, carrying 115 passengers and six crew, was headed from Larnaca, Cyprus, to Athens international airport when it crashed into a mountainous area north of Athens at about 12.05pm (1005BST). The Boeing 737 was due to fly on to Prague in the Czech Republic.

There were 48 children on board, Helios spokesman Giorgos Dimitriou told reporters at Athens airport, and "most of them were Greek Cypriots". A Czech government official also confirmed that figure.

The pilots of two F-16 jet fighters that intercepted the plane over the Aegean sea shortly before it crashed saw one of the airliner's pilots slumped over the controls, Greece's Alpha television channel quoted air force officials as saying.

It was unclear where the other pilot was. The officials also reported that there was no movement in the cabin.

A spokesman for the air force said the plane was intercepted at 10,360 metres after it entered Greek airspace.

Sotiris Voutas, a cousin of one of the passengers on the plane, told Alpha that he received a text message from the cousin on his mobile phone minutes before the crash.

"He told me the pilots were unconscious ... he said: 'Farewell, cousin, here we're frozen.'"

Fire chief Christos Smetis said there were no survivors among the 121 people aboard.

"The fire is still burning and there are no survivors," he said.

Greek state television NET reported that the two black boxes from the Cypriot plane were located.

A spokesman for the Cyprus government said that there were no signs it was a terrorist attack.

"From what we've heard so far, it's possible that there was some sort of problem with the plane," the spokesman said.

The coldness in the cabin suggested "the crew may have been suffering from lack of oxygen," said David Kaminski Morrow, deputy news editor of the British-based Air Transport Intelligence magazine.

The Greek prime minister, Costas Caramanlis, and the Cypriot president, Tassos Papadopoulos, have cancelled their vacations following the crash.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005

[Sandman]

Horrible. Couldn't the autopilot be programmed to lower the plane to a safe altitude if the cabin pressure drops?

[Dis]

I'm not sure if I believe that text message. How would a passenger know the pilots are unconcious. And if they had access to the cockpit (I'm not sure of greek cockpit security after 9/11) they could have at least kept the plane at altitude (or at an alitude such as 10000 feet where they could get sufficient oxygen and not hit mountains in that area). And like the movies, they could have been talked down .

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
They just had another news article. 121 dead, 48 of those children.

Finding the article...slightly unrelated question:

Has there ever been a plane incident in which the masks that drop from the ceiling have made a difference?

Lots, I think. Only one that I can recall is that 747 that lost part of it's fuselage - I think it was going to Hawaii, but not sure.

I guess that loss of cabin pressure is considered a minor incident - serious enough, but not as critical as loss of engine, lack of fuel etc.

[Asher]

Does this have anything to do with paiktis' troll in the Toronto crash thread blaming Canadians for that one (despite the blame shifting to the Euros again)?

Weird how life works sometimes.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Sandman
Horrible. Couldn't the autopilot be programmed to lower the plane to a safe altitude if the cabin pressure drops?

There are a couple of problems with such an automatic reaction. First, I don't think it's wise to have flights plunging uncontrolled in heavy traffic areas, secondly, I'm not sure that they have radars pointing down - the flight may decide to place itself inside a mountain.

Loss of cabin pressure is dangerous, but if oxygen masks are working, it's not particularily dangerous.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Dis


I don't think dying in a plane crash is all that painful. It probably happens too fast. Unless you are burned alive. That always sucks.

Dis, congratulations.
I'm pleased to announce that you've won the ACS Master of Understatement Award.

[Pekka]

Crashing would be horrible. It's not the pain, even quick one, it's the horror before it, and I'd imagine the horror in plane must be a great one before it actually crashes, and lasts for a while. No thanks.

Blackcat, do you mean to say the plane doesn't know its altitude??? The plan doesn't have to have radars in order to know it's altitude.

It can be done reasonably, with emergency going on when the pressure goes off, and that it has to be switched off by the pilots, if not swithced off in x amount of time, it will drop down automatically to preset altitudes in that route. And when the emergency goes on, the flight controls etc have x amount of time to warn every plane close enough to be affected by it possibly.

Because if it's not switched off, it'll come down anyway, planes near or not.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


Dis, congratulations.
I'm pleased to announce that you've won the ACS Master of Understatement Award.

I'm not that sure it's special fun to be aboard a plane diving from 9 km's height - if it's straight down it probably only takes a minute, but airplanes scaresly take that path, so there are several minutes to think about what's going to happen. There may not be that much physical pain, but I guess that there are time for a thought or two.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Pekka
Crashing would be horrible. It's not the pain, even quick one, it's the horror before it, and I'd imagine the horror in plane must be a great one before it actually crashes, and lasts for a while. No thanks.

Blackcat, do you mean to say the plane doesn't know its altitude??? The plan doesn't have to have radars in order to know it's altitude.

It can be done reasonably, with emergency going on when the pressure goes off, and that it has to be switched off by the pilots, if not swithced off in x amount of time, it will drop down automatically to preset altitudes in that route. And when the emergency goes on, the flight controls etc have x amount of time to warn every plane close enough to be affected by it possibly.

Because if it's not switched off, it'll come down anyway, planes near or not.

For once we agree - it's the time before crash that may be the worst. BS - that must just be horrible

Altitude is typically measured by air pressure, but modern planes may have downward radars to measure altitude above ground wich is a different thing from altitude above sea wich is the zero point.

You are right, there can easily be made automatics that incites such a dive, but imagine a flight that get some technical failure that implies a pressure drop when it's just above Heatrow.

[Pekka]

Right I did think of that but forgot to mention about it, since I didn't think someone would bring it up. In cases like airport, highly populated city etc, it would not work automatically like that. Just to be safe from failures in the system. So it's just few minutes not working by default. Then there also should be overriding methods from outside the plane, if it should be done.