45% of Americans are Morons

[Jon Miller]

no

what he is saying is that the common man doesn't know enough to know that they are facts...

as such is in many cases not refusing to listen to something, but just doesn't know, and doesn't want to put in the work to find out

and in a democracy the common man will have some power..

Jon Miller

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by beingofone
For example - if the answer to faith and mystical experience was made a serious study, with experimentation. Why not take the lab coat boys up to the top of the Himalayan mountains and conduct a serious study.

Please explain how such a study could be done "seriously." Of course, by "seriously," I'm assuming you meant "through the scientific method," as that is the only way science can work.

Attempts to verify mysticism as fact have been around a lot longer than scientific methodology. Yet the attempts have always failed to prove the case. So saying that people are giving short thrift to mysticism is, IMO, pretty unsubstantiated.

Of course, with creation vs. evolution, that's not even remotely the issue, as creationism (in the sense of of the earth being created 6-10K years ago, Adam & Eve, etc.) isn't just unproven, it's been thoroughly disproven by almost every means at our disposal. One cannot rationally hold the belief that the Biblical Genesis account is literally true in the face of what real scientific investigation has proven.

Willful ignorance is little different from stupidity, IMO.

[SpencerH]

First thing - you weren't the poly-poster I was refering to. I was just trying to be less confrontational than normal.

45% of Americans are Morons


According to ABC 45% of Americans believe in Creationism and that God created man 10,000 years ago...

If true I find that statistic simply staggering for a modern western country in the 21st century!

But at least 55% of Americans are smart enough to know the truth.

Does anyone on Poly believe in Creationism, go on you can admit it - we won't laugh at you, much...

I would call that condescending, wouldnt you?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Ask Europeans about the risk of Genetically Modified Foods, and you will get a bunch of similar moronic responses. For example, one strain of corn has the genes for BT spliced into it. You and I can eat BT (it's a bacteria that gives caterpillars the flu, essentially) and have absolutely no effect. You can spray it onto corn directly before harvesting, and there are no restrictions on it (unlike with many insecticides). They had to fight for YEARS to get the EU to permit corn imports with the BT gene spliced into it. Look at the response of many Europeans to "Frankenfoods." Stupid, emotional responses to science fact are distressingly common.

Not to disagree, but the thing re: GM food imports is a lot to do with protectionism of agriculture. Seeing the size of the EU budget spent on subsidies its not hard to see why the EU lawmakers and politicians would drag their feet and prevent US foods coming into the market place for as long as possible. The non-existant public health issue was still a good excuse to pander too and deliberately play up.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Please explain how such a study could be done "seriously." Of course, by "seriously," I'm assuming you meant "through the scientific method," as that is the only way science can work.

Attempts to verify mysticism as fact have been around a lot longer than scientific methodology. Yet the attempts have always failed to prove the case. So saying that people are giving short thrift to mysticism is, IMO, pretty unsubstantiated.

Of course, with creation vs. evolution, that's not even remotely the issue, as creationism (in the sense of of the earth being created 6-10K years ago, Adam & Eve, etc.) isn't just unproven, it's been thoroughly disproven by almost every means at our disposal. One cannot rationally hold the belief that the Biblical Genesis account is literally true in the face of what real scientific investigation has proven.

Willful ignorance is little different from stupidity, IMO.

umm, scientifically there is no way to disprove the idea that the world was created 6 days ago and we all have implanted memories, etc...

now most don't think that is very likely, but it isn't disproven (in fact, science can't even say that there is evidence against it)

now many creationists have certain views of things and many/most of those have been disproven

Jon Miller

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Dauphin


Not to disagree, but the thing re: GM food imports is a lot to do with protectionism of agriculture. Seeing the size of the EU budget spent on subsidies its not hard to see why the EU lawmakers and politicians would drag their feet and prevent US foods coming into the market place for as long as possible. The non-existant public health issue was still a good excuse to pander too and deliberately play up.

Definitely sounds like the best reasoning for the whole fuss over GM foods.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
umm, scientifically there is no way to disprove the idea that the world was created 6 days ago and we all have implanted memories, etc...

now most don't think that is very likely, but it isn't disproven (in fact, science can't even say that there is evidence against it)

now many creationists have certain views of things and many/most of those have been disproven

Jon Miller

This is, of course, a bunch of hooey, because as a caveat to science, it's always provisional. Solipsism, while logically internally consistent, is not rational. And those who deny science when it comes to how the universe/earth came into being are perfectly willing to accept it in most other cases, so they're willful ignorance is not even consistent.

[Odin]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc

However, Scientific ignorance is not the sole purview of the religious right. In the 70's I remember reading a poll where they stated that 65% of the respondents stated that they believed a Nuclear Power Plant could explode, as in like a Nuclear bomb (versus meltdown). There has only been one reactor in the US capable of that (a military one), and it was mothballed decades ago. But everybody at the time knew that Nukes were teh evil.

Ask Europeans about the risk of Genetically Modified Foods, and you will get a bunch of similar moronic responses. For example, one strain of corn has the genes for BT spliced into it. You and I can eat BT (it's a bacteria that gives caterpillars the flu, essentially) and have absolutely no effect. You can spray it onto corn directly before harvesting, and there are no restrictions on it (unlike with many insecticides). They had to fight for YEARS to get the EU to permit corn imports with the BT gene spliced into it. Look at the response of many Europeans to "Frankenfoods." Stupid, emotional responses to science fact are distressingly common.

Sickening, isn't it. I get the feeling that most of the anti-GMO people are the Eco-Luddite-New Age Hippies who use Relativist and Post-Modernist "philosophy" to "prove" that all modern science and technology are a capitalist conspiracy to rape the 3rd World. GMOs will actually HELP the enviroment because farmers will not have to spray as much pesticides.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by SpencerH
First thing - you weren't the poly-poster I was refering to. I was just trying to be less confrontational than normal.



I would call that condescending, wouldnt you?

Of course it's condescending...

Seriously, you have to be either incredibly stupid or utterly misguided to believe the whole claptrap about the world being less than 10,000 years old and the fact that god created it in six days - how totally ludicrous can you get!!?

(But at least I generally hold my tongue about people believing in God/Gods etc - people are perfectly entitled to be misguided and waste their time believing in that sort of crap as long as they don't impinge on my life.)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I get the feeling that most of the anti-GMO people are the Eco-Luddite-New Age Hippies who use Relativist and Post-Modernist "philosophy" to "prove" that all modern science and technology are a capitalist conspiracy to rape the 3rd World.

It's absolutely amazing how you turn a post against GMO people into a rant against relativism and post-modernism. I'm still not sure how you connected the two in your brain, and I wonder if you are.

Though I'd imagine plenty of "Eco-Luddite-New Age Hippies" blame modern technology and science on Relativist and Post-Modernist philopshy which says it is ok to rape the Earth under the capitalist moral philosophy.

[Mr. Harley]

SpencerH - nobody had posted in about two hours, and then you posted right after me. I took the context to imply that you were responding directly. Apologies.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I get the feeling that most of the anti-GMO people are the Eco-Luddite-New Age Hippies who use Relativist and Post-Modernist "philosophy" to "prove" that all modern science and technology are a capitalist conspiracy to rape the 3rd World.

It's absolutely amazing how you turn a post against GMO people into a rant against relativism and post-modernism. I'm still not sure how you connected the two in your brain, and I wonder if you are.

Though I'd imagine plenty of "Eco-Luddite-New Age Hippies" blame modern technology and science on Relativist and Post-Modernist philopshy which says it is ok to rape the Earth under the capitalist moral philosophy.

Huh? I could of swore I rember reading about a school of post-modernist thought that said that Science is "just another belief system."

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I would call that condescending, wouldnt you?

What's wrong with condescending to people significantly beneath you?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
SpencerH - nobody had posted in about two hours, and then you posted right after me. I took the context to imply that you were responding directly. Apologies.

de nada

Mine was badly worded since it was without reference.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


This is, of course, a bunch of hooey, because as a caveat to science, it's always provisional. Solipsism, while logically internally consistent, is not rational. And those who deny science when it comes to how the universe/earth came into being are perfectly willing to accept it in most other cases, so they're willful ignorance is not even consistent.

there is no greater beleif required to beleive what I said above, then to beleive in a Christian style God...

now I know that a lot of people have a hard time beleiving in God (or gods)

but the majority of people do..

JM