Explosion heard in London - political part

[Imran Siddiqui]

Is that based on comparative casuality analysis? If so...I think we come out rather ahead of the game.

We are suffering more casulties per month in Iraq today than in the first few months after we took over the country.

[Velociryx]

Yep...we are indeed, Imran.

I wonder tho, what do our total casualty figures look like, say...compared to the casualties suffered by the enemy oh...in the first two hours of combat?

No doubt that they're picking us off by ones and twos (and sometimes more than that), because of the change in the situation.

The army is stationary now, guarding specific terrain (not the least of which includes government buildins and key infrastructure). It stands to reason that, having been swept from the field, what's left is sniper and suicide attacks, which will take their toll.

-=Vel=-

[Gatekeeper]

There are people in this world who *enjoy* killing others, and they will stoop to any means and/or hijack any cause to do just that.

And, like anything else on God's green Earth, these terrorists have their "rah-rah" supporter types who write of terrorism that targets civilians and whatnot as legitimate because it has "just causes" and other assorted crappola. The cruel, inhuman part of me simply wishes that these people, these supporters of monsters, would themselves become victims of what they extol ... to see their children, their *babies* blown apart into a million bloody pieces, to see their brothers and sisters and friends torn asunder by shrapnel. The human part of me — a big part, by far — simply weeps everytime someone uses deadly violence to advance their "cause." The spiritual part of me simply sometimes wants *nothing* to do with my fellow human beings, to separate once and for all and never look back. Unfortunately, that's called running away, and it never solves things, just delays the day of reckoning. So, for better or for worse, we're stuck with each other and, damnit, we'd better not wipe each other out or, at the very least, not take the planet with us when we do finally commit suicide as a species.

As for political ramifications, I really don't think it's going to affect the British much. Their "stiff upper lips" aren't works of fiction, after all.

Gatekeeper

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Res ipso loquitur.


Ive seen intelligent debate and the changing of minds in the real world, and even here.

My arguement is not that no one changes thei minds.

My arguement is that i think Horsie was wrong to state that this attack would lead to a perceptible increase in public support for Iraq.

I don;t think it will. If you support the war already, this is evidence why we need to be there.

If you don;t support the war, this is evidence of why it has been a failure.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Whether or not you agreed with the Iraq war to begin with, there is now a battle in Iraq between those who want a democracy, and those who want either a return to brutal Sunni minority rule or a Taliban style state. If those wanting a democracy don't win, it will not only be a disaster for the Iraqi people, but Iraq may then also become the next major base for international terrorism where they are allowed to train freely.

Actually, the situation in Iraq is a battle between those who want a pluralistic federated republic, or a return to a Sunni authoritarian state, or a Shia Theocratic state, or an independent Kurdish state, and those who want a Taliban style Islamic state.

It's true any one country can take itself momentarily out of the way of the conflict by withdrawing from Iraq. But for defeating this menace in the long run the best course of action is to keep of fighting in Iraq until the Iraqi government is able to handle the country on it's own.

Of course, had the US not invaded Iraq, the jihadist would not have a chance in hell of taking over (they still don;t as their suppoert base in Iraq is too small).

[BlackCat]

Some has stated that the only real effective way to fight terrorism is to prevent that anyone want's to join the terrorist groups. I agree on that, but that may not be as easy.'

Local news has talked with locals in different places in ME, and common people despise what has been done but they too say that they understand it because of the atrocities that the western world are doing to the Iraqui people.

As far as I know none of those soldiers stationed by several countries are committing any atrocities on a daily basis, so wy do they think that ? The answer is that their main source of information is Al Jazeera wich shows closeups of Iraqui victims of yet another incident. Only problem is that they don't say that those victims are the result of those fighting against Iraqui freedom - admitted, they don't nessecarily claim that it is us/the coalition that has done it, but that would just make it less effective.

My best guess why some may join organisations that declares "holy war" is that they really don't know what is happening.

[DAVOUT]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Explosion heard in London - political part

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Were it not for the propensity of other suspects to be killed "while resisting arrest" in France, he'd have been extradicted quickly.

So your propensity to protect terrorists was resulting from the behaviour of the French police. Interesting. I suppose that your participating in killing Iraqis is caused by their propensity to resist invasion.
The reality is that the UK protected islamists terrorists as long as terror was exported. After 9/11 the US asked to be serious on that subjet and Londonistan was dismantled. The 7/7 attack was a consequence as well as your final extradition of Ramda.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Dauphin
I surmise that it is in fact largely due to the opportunity to take a day off work without claiming a sickie or holiday.

Diliciously cynical

[DAVOUT]

/

Originally posted by BlackCat


My best guess why some may join organisations that declares "holy war" is that they really don't know what is happening.

This is seriously contradicted by the fact that terrorist (those who did the 9/11 attack for instance, or suicide bombers) are generally well educated and belong to the middle class. This category of people is ordinarily well informed.

[notyoueither]

There are university educated creationists. You think university is an assurance of wisdom?

[KrazyHorse]

Most university degrees nowadays aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by notyoueither
There are university educated creationists. You think university is an assurance of wisdom?

Acquiring information is one thing, using it cleverly a totally different one. Wisdom refers to the second.

[Frozzy]

So your propensity to protect terrorists was resulting from the behaviour of the French police. Interesting. I suppose that your participating in killing Iraqis is caused by their propensity to resist invasion.

And the French bombing a ship in NZ is caused by their propensity to not like being nuked?

[notyoueither]

1. They're pissed off about the state of their countries of origin (the ME) or they are pissed off about conditions in their adoptive homes (Europe and elsewhere).

2. They are susceptible to fundamentalist Islam being widely preached both in the ME and in some of Europe's own cities (and a few other places).

3. They get sucked into a culture of religious-supremist bigotry and some step up as being willing to strike a blow or blows for Allah.

4. You end up with people who should be living productive lives, but who instead have been twisted by hate and turned loose to wreck havoc.

You could withdraw every single vestige of Western, Christian presence in the ME and the problem would not go away.

Instead, we would have abandoned a large part of the world and a significant portion of its population to a rising tide of fundamentalist states across the ME. We would then be shocked, shocked I tell you, when the tidal wave of Islamism then breaks across the cities and countryside of Western Europe and North America.

This may have started as a struggle over geography, with Mujahadeen fighting the Red Army, but it has grown way beyond that. The genie is out of the bottle and it is going to be a long time putting it back.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by DAVOUT


Acquiring information is one thing, using it cleverly a totally different one. Wisdom refers to the second.

So we agree that a good education does not assure a good result.