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Exhibit a.
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon -
Incidentally, I've read an excellent speech by Ken Livingston (Mayor of London):
I want to say one thing specifically to the world today. This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful. It was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Ministers. It was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any considerations for age, for class, for religion, or whatever.
That isn't an ideology, it isn't even a perverted faith - it is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder and we know what the objective is. They seek to divide Londoners. They seek to turn Londoners against each other. I said yesterday to the International Olympic Committee, that the city of London is the greatest in the world, because everybody lives side by side in harmony. Londoners will not be divided by this cowardly attack. They will stand together in solidarity alongside those who have been injured and those who have been bereaved and that is why I'm proud to be the mayor of that city.
Finally, I wish to speak directly to those who came to London today to take life.
I know that you personally do not fear giving up your own life in order to take others - that is why you are so dangerous. But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society and I can show you why you will fail.
In the days that follow look at our airports, look at our sea ports and look at our railway stations and, even after your cowardly attack, you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and achieve their potential.
They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be able to be themselves. They flee you because you tell them how they should live. They don't want that and nothing you do, however many of us you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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What makes you think that is a failure of their attack? I seriously doubt they where expecting to cause a change in policiy through a terrorist attack like this, their motive is to cause conflict, war, and strife. They want to escalate fighting, not stop it. But unfortunetly so do alot of leaders within our own governments, and so they end up playing into one another's hands and everyone caught inbetween gets the bombs (wether they're droped from a plain or hidden on a bus).Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
This is pure gold for the coalition.
The extremists have a fundamentally flawed view of Western democracies like Britain. Their actions only give people reasons to support things like the war in Iraq.
Bombs go off in London, and in every country there are leaders and political figures banging drums, rattling sabers, and conscripting people to whatever cause they want.Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse
Do It OurselvesComment
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I wonder if this wasn't really about the trial of the muslim cleric."I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!Comment
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It probably has something to do with Masri. He's from the same organization as Zahwahri."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Naaah. The mods here are for the most part upstanding blokes. Its the fraud ones you need watch out for.Originally posted by DinoDoc
Sounds like he's a moderator here."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Let's have a look at his earlier views on the subject:Originally posted by Ramo
Incidentally, I've read an excellent speech by Ken Livingston (Mayor of London):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1171673,00.htmlYusuf al-Qaradawi: “This is not suicide, it is martyrdom in the name of God. ... acts of martyrdom are allowed.”
Ken Livingston (defending these comments): “Very often those who raise uncomfortable truths are denounced.”I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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i doubt this will change British foreign policy one way or the other. Im not sure it will change domestic counter terror policies all that much. This is not quite the shock 9/11, or even 3/11 were. People have been expecting an attack on the UK since 9/11, and this one, even if casualties go up, does not look that severe compared to past AQ attacks elsewhere.
The real question, as Davout mentions, is the future of the UK policy of reluctance to extradite persons of interest wanted elsewhere - not only by France, but by Russia, mideastern states, etc. IIUC the UK is much less likely to extradite than other EU states. Some have claimed that there were no terror acts in UK up to this point due to this policy - the terrorists did not want to lose their quasi-sanctuary (of course it wasnt a sanctuary for proven terrorists, more for people on the fringes of terrorism, inciters, etc) Perhaps it is in this context that the trial of Abu Hamza was important - if "sanctuary" was being denied anyway, why not strike?
But all this is rank speculation till we have a better idea of who actually did this. What if any, were there connections to "londonistan" that is the complex of radical Islamist imams in London? what was there connection to the residual AQ leadership in South Asia? To al Tawhid?"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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re Ken Livingstone
while I have trouble with his earlier statements, I would give credit where credit is due. the statement he issued yesterday was right on, and stands in contrast to that of the MP for Bethnal and Bow Green. I would watch Red Ken's actions going forward, and judge him on those."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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as for the political motives, I think its impossible to say what those are, and probably will be for decades. Are they trying to get UK OUT of Iraq and Afghanistan, as their statement says, or trying to draw UK further into armed conflict in the Islamic world (as Stratfor said the 9/11 attack was designed to do - which was why they combined 9/11 with the assasination of Massoud of the Northern Alliance). Or is it designed to stir up anti-muslim vigilantism? Or is it simply to show the muslim world that AQ is still functioning, and is strong? AQ doesnt recruit only the basis of victimization and western wrongs, but by showing that it (unlike, say, secular nationalists) is strong and can inflict pain on the West, and thus restore pride. Its a stretch, but perhaps they really did want to undermine the G8 conference.
And we should recall that for religious fanatics, a political strategy may incorporate considerations that are irrational to the rest of us. From what I have read there is tiny strain of orthodox jewish fanatics who want to blow up the mosques on the temple mount in jerusalem. Now from any "rational" perspective this is loony, as it can only lead to a war of the entire islamic world against Israel, one where israel might have little western support. To the fanatics, thats the feature, not the bug. By starting a war that would lead towards the extermination of Israel, they would FORCE G-d to intervene and save Israel with a miracle. But in Jewish theology G-d doesnt perform miracles in modern times, and wont until the Messiah comes. Thus this would force G-d to send the Messiah and end History. This is called "forcing the End". IF you share the assumptions of the fanatics, its a RATIONAL strategy (whether to call it a POLITICAL strategy im not sure) IT CANNOT be ruled out that the leaders of AQ have some analogous motivations in mind - there has been conflicting analysis on this."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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I don't recall endorsing his earlier views.Let's have a look at his earlier views on the subject:
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I don't see any changes in public opinion. Most will compare it to the IRA attacks and chalk it up to further experience at dealing with and preventing acts of terrorism. Government policy may change but where political malleability of the public is concerned (e.g increasing willingness for ID cards or favour in the Iraqi war opinion) - I don't see it happening.One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.Comment
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What stupid and pointless attack, resulting in stupid and pointless deaths.
This changes nothing except ruining people's lives.
errr.....I am still waiting to find out how this will affect Mornington Crescent...."Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
"...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
"sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.Comment
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ken livingstone has always been cosy with terrorists, from the IRA in 80s, to the guy who endorsed suicide bombings in israel last year. yeah he made a good speech, but as they say, actions speak louder than words.Originally posted by lord of the mark
re Ken Livingstone
while I have trouble with his earlier statements, I would give credit where credit is due. the statement he issued yesterday was right on, and stands in contrast to that of the MP for Bethnal and Bow Green. I would watch Red Ken's actions going forward, and judge him on those.
and yeah galloway is a worthless ****bag, but then we've known that for years. no doubt though his remarks will go down a storm with his constituants, cos lets face it that's how he got elected there in the first place. :/"The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.
"The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de BottonComment
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errr.....I am still waiting to find out how this will affect Mornington Crescent....
Well I don't think the IMCA is going to endorse or accept the new variant that replaces nesbits with bombs.One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.Comment
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