Explosion heard in London

[lord of the mark]

ok, now theyre saying that one bomber died for sure, on the bus, and that they found his belongings on the bus. There were 4 bombers, at least 3 from Leeds, not sure if the others are alive or not. One guy has been arrested in west Yorkshire. A car has been impounded. Info from closed circuit TV cameras showed the 4 bombers entering Kings Cross station 20 minutes before the bombings.

Things are happening quickly now.

[lightblue]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4674463.stm

Arrests and forensic evidence to one bomber. Seems they're homegrown fanatics, this won't be good. I would've preferred if they were north african or middle eastern, this way we can see more reprisals against the muslim community in the UK which won't be any good (few arson attacks on mosques already).

[Ninot]

with the muslim communities in all these western nations, home grown terrorism isn't a far fetched idea at all.

I remember seeing quite a few news reports about terrorists based out of London about a year ago.

And I know that 9/11 terrorists stayed in Montreal for a while. I think that just points to militant cells in Canada who'd be willing to repeat the deeds.

What a scary world we live in

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by lightblue

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4674463.stm

Arrests and forensic evidence to one bomber. Seems they're homegrown fanatics, this won't be good. I would've preferred if they were north african or middle eastern, this way we can see more reprisals against the muslim community in the UK which won't be any good (few arson attacks on mosques already).

The pattern at Casablanca and Madrid was locals to plant the bombs, apparently under technical guidance from outsiders. Hopefully further investigation will lead up the chain.

[our_man]

I flew back to Glasgow today and was surprised to see how many police were on the street - I've never seen as many on the beat at one time except during Rangers-Celtic games.

Disgustingly, back in Ireland, at one of the GAA matches over the weekend a minority of supporters purportedly started chanting IRA slogans during the minute's silence for victims of the bombing.

http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/story.asp?j=10029537366&p=yxxz95374yz&n=10029537454

Some people I guess just can't let go of the past - several people have written into the newspapers here saying Britain has got its just desserts for invading Iraq. Some good has come out of this tragedy though - it's finally convinced the Irish government to take the threat of Islamic terrorism seriously. Up until now, despite the Gardai's vaunted claims, we've more-or-less turned a blind eye to it in Ireland.

Does anyone out there remember good ol' Jihad? Jihad was one of the Church of the Nativity gang that we foolishly granted political asylum to. He was meant to be under heavy Gardai surveillance. A few months ago the Spanish police contacted the Gardai to let them know that Jihad had paid a little unexpected visit to Spain. The Gardai had no idea he was missing.

My two cents, and I'm sorry in advance if what I'm saying is too harsh for the sombre note of this thread - but the UK had better start toughening up its act, right now. The British are appeasing terrorism in my eyes. It disgusts me the way they roll over and give Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein/IRA everything they ask for. Time and time again the Republicans have failed to live up to their side of a deal and Tony has just let it pass. The amount of Islamic terrorists the UK has given asylum too is frightening if the papers are believed. They should stop defending the Muslim community and get tough with them, right now. Let them know that they must do a much better job of policing themselves for extremists in their midst. The fact of the matter is that it seems that it seems British citizens were behind the bombings, which suggests that somewhere in the UK's Muslim community these young men are being indoctrinated that it's OK to kill infidels.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by lightblue

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4674463.stm

Arrests and forensic evidence to one bomber. Seems they're homegrown fanatics, this won't be good. I would've preferred if they were north african or middle eastern, this way we can see more reprisals against the muslim community in the UK which won't be any good (few arson attacks on mosques already).

They mentioned here this morning that they were pakistani moslems.

I'd like to see the citizenship of some of these nutjobs revoked. I know that the citizenship of naturalized americans can be revoked for some offenses but I dont know about british citizenship.

[lightblue]

They were probably of pakistani origin, but are most likely 3rd or 4th generation Brits. Unlikely that citizenship can be revoked.

[Az]

3rd or 4th generation Brits

[lightblue]

What? Anybody born here can get citizenship (iirc), same as in the US I think. These people mostly descend from people arriving just after ww2 and are 19-20yrs old, so yes they're 3rd or 4th generation. They have British birth certificates, British passports, British education etc. etc. They're Brits but obviously don't want to be.

[Az]

Well, that's what I am shaking my head at. They, and their ilk should be removed for good from society. Problem is, they won't agree, and maybe that's what the real problem is: they don't want to stop being part of that society, but they want to make that society change.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by lightblue
They have British birth certificates, British passports, British education etc. etc. They're Brits but obviously don't want to be.

That's part of the problem though. Nationality is only one aspect of their identity. Their religious beliefs (or extremist views fueled by/ influenced by those) are another aspect which they feel is more important.
Is it that they don't want to be Brits, or is it that they want Britain to be different?

[lightblue]

Well yeah, I mean the logical reaction to people wanting to turn the UK into a country with Sharia law and the like would be to send them to Saudi or Iran or something and let them live over there. Not sure they'd want them though.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by lightblue
Well yeah, I mean the logical reaction to people wanting to turn the UK into a country with Sharia law and the like would be to send them to Saudi or Iran or something and let them live over there.

The thing is, they're British citizens. Just like you. They're against British policies in the ME and they've chosen a radical way to express their dissent. (To put things very mildly).

[lord of the mark]

1. Has is actually been established they were 3rd generation Brits? hasnt Britain continued to receive immigration from south asia? The US certainly has. Arent there 1st generation Pakistanis in the UK?

2. The bombers may have been 3rd generation. Its very unlikely that the ones who incited them with an ideology of changing Britain in a radical Islamist image were though. IIUC Hamza, Bakri and other preachers are all foreign born. France has focused on having more native born, French speaking Imams.

3. Its now beleived that there was a mastermind and a bombmaker who are at large. Not clear if these guys were foreigners.

4. Its certainly up to the leadership of British muslims, with the support of the rest of society, to focus on assimilation.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

And the racist youth show their true colors:

A Muslim man has been beaten to death outside a corner shop by a gang of youths who shouted anti-Islamic abuse at him, the Guardian has learned.

Kamal Raza Butt, 48, from Pakistan, was visiting Britain to see friends and family. On Sunday afternoon he went to a shop in Nottingham to buy cigarettes and was first called "Taliban" by the youths and then set upon.

Nottinghamshire police described the incident as racially aggravated, not as Islamophobic, angering Muslim groups and surprising some senior officers.