Rugby - Hands Off White!

[finbar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

I can still walk. Everything's fine.

Yes, well. It was only the first week. Report back to us in a month's time. If you can.

I heard about five minutes of yesterday's Wallabies - ABs game before I had to go out. The five minutes coincided with Mark Gerard's first try just on half time, so the Wallabies went to the break down 5-20. It sounds like they played very much better in the second half, with Matt Rogers excelling at #10 before he ran out of puff. They even got to within three points before they stupidly gave away penalties. I suppose it has to be deemed a good effort under the injury circumstances. The knives remain out for George Gregan, even thought he, apparently, had a much better game. The fact remains that, while a pack is, at best, constantly under pressure, no half back can excel except on the back foot. Thus anyone who replaces Gregan will face exactly the same problem but without his experience and guile.

While I haven't seen any of this season's Tests, it sounds like the front row is even less competitive than it was. That, and crap lineouts - they're missing Plank's organising skills terribly, and Dan Vickerman, his lieutenant and astute organiser is injured - on top of the injuries, are what is killing them. If you can't control possession from the set pieces, you're always chasing and defending.

[Havak]

Morning Gentlemen. And how are we? Have the kiwi lads finished celebrating yet?

Any more outrageous than you lumping England into the top four or five teams come next World Cup time?

Given that the Wallabies still hold third place in the world rankings I might as well make England favourites for the next RWC – it has just as much credibility.

There’s a very real chance that the Turnip led England will beat this Wallaby outfit in November Finbar. I hope that scares you as much as it does me – a Robinson led England really shouldn’t be threatening SH sides. After all Turnip says he took some positives from the Lions experience.

I can understand Eddie being frustrated but what on earth was he doing going on record saying “clearly the players we have are not good enough”? If it is an attempt to light a fire under the players it is perhaps an ill considered one as it could turn the players away from him?

I'd be interested to hear from Havak - when he gets back - who the fourth and fifth choices for the England #10 spot would be.

Current pecking order would probably be Wilko-Hodgson-Goode-King-Barkeley.

So King (Wasps) or Barkeley (Bath). Both have been tried at the top level and found wanting

no half back can excel except on the back foot

A good point in defence of George – and strangely timely for ‘King’ Carlos who might be regretting his move to Northampton. Dan Carter would have been anonymous behind a Saints pack that is just about the worst I have ever seen from them.

Saturday’s result Tigers 32 – Saints 0

And Goode missed four conversions and three penalties.

[Havak]

By the way Finbar there really is hysteria here about the Cricket now. Even lasses are getting wrapped up in the drama for goodness sake.

I expect Australia to come out all guns blazing on Thursday to be honest. They can't keep relying solely on Warne to give them a chance.

How do you feel about Ponting's deportment recently? Lucky to keep any of his match fee after his disgraceful behaviour at Trent Bridge and, along with McGrath, made a total a*** of himself after the test by whining on and on about something that was simply not against the rules of the game.

I think the Irony of Australians moaning about the spirit of the game being ruined sailed right over this pairs head anyway. Aussie sledging passed the bounds of decency/acceptability decades ago after all?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
There’s a very real chance that the Turnip led England will beat this Wallaby outfit in November Finbar. I hope that scares you as much as it does me – a Robinson led England really shouldn’t be threatening SH sides. After all Turnip says he took some positives from the Lions experience.

Whether an England side, patched up, missing nine players, with an utter novice and fourth choice #10 would get within three points of this All Blacks team after being down 0-20 is another matter.

I can understand Eddie being frustrated but what on earth was he doing going on record saying “clearly the players we have are not good enough”? If it is an attempt to light a fire under the players it is perhaps an ill considered one as it could turn the players away from him?

He was talking about the pack, and the front row in particular. That's what's giving the grief. I have no idea why he said it. With the pressure he's under in Australia, it doesn't surprise me, though.

Current pecking order would probably be Wilko-Hodgson-Goode-King-Barkeley.

So King (Wasps) or Barkeley (Bath). Both have been tried at the top level and found wanting

At least the Wallaby fourth choice #10 obviously craps on the England one.

A good point in defence of George – and strangely timely for ‘King’ Carlos who might be regretting his move to Northampton. Dan Carter would have been anonymous behind a Saints pack that is just about the worst I have ever seen from them.

Saturday’s result Tigers 32 – Saints 0

And Goode missed four conversions and three penalties.

There you go. If the pack is on roller skates, what can a half back do? The gunning for Gregan is ridiculous at this point in time. Yes, he had a couple of ordinary games behind a dismal pack, but apparently he did everything humanly possible behind a dismal pack on the weekend.

[Havak]

Whether an England side, patched up, missing nine players, with an utter novice and fourth choice #10 would get within three points of this All Blacks team after being down 0-20 is another matter.

At the moment such an England side would get marmalised by them. Fortunately the ABs face Wales to start off the ‘Grand Slam tour’ so we don’t get humiliated first.

Having said that an England side with similar circumstances got within a few points of a much better Wallabies side (than they are now) last November so anything can happen in rugger.

With the pressure he's under in Australia, it doesn't surprise me, though.

I actual feel sorry for him. And I never (ever) thought I would to be honest. What can he do as you say – the front row is badly deficient right now and the locks are either raw or just lacking guile. Come back Plank all is forgiven?

At least the Wallaby fourth choice #10 obviously craps on the England one.

Rogers v King? There’s no contest at all and I would be mad to argue otherwise. Rogers is a gifted natural footballer despite the error he made in his choice of codes initially (purely IMO). I’d risk him every time. King excels at club level (another Wasp sadly) – and has fallen flat every time asked questions above that standard.

We have a number of youngsters in the youth sides but all are behind the guys I named at the moment.

but apparently he did everything humanly possible behind a dismal pack on the weekend.

I only caught the last 12 minutes or so – but George was a committed as ever. I couldn’t fault him really.

I didn’t realise that Ponting was a Tasmanian by the way – it sheds new light on his self control. He must have to work on it constantly?

Now don’t spread this too far Finbar – but I have a sneaky feeling Australia will blow England away in this one. England excel at anti-climaxes after all.

*edit* Forgot to mention that the new SH style game time clocks and game time sirens were not used last weekend in any games. Why? Well Premier Rugby (the clubs/RFU hybrid organisation that runs the top flight) failed to deliver them to the grounds on time. Typically English eh?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I actual feel sorry for him. And I never (ever) thought I would to be honest. What can he do as you say – the front row is badly deficient right now and the locks are either raw or just lacking guile. Come back Plank all is forgiven?

Yes, and Dan Vickerman, fit, would be handy. Apart from being a promising lineout organiser, he was Plank's deputy in that department, he also has some mongrel. Nathan Sharp seems never to have learned organisation and also lacks mongrel. The other incumbent, Chisolm, is young and promising. So the current combo aren't all that threatening.

I only caught the last 12 minutes or so – but George was a committed as ever. I couldn’t fault him really.

So you probably caught Matt Dunning's brain explosions, handing out penalties that utterly destroyed their fightback.

I didn’t realise that Ponting was a Tasmanian by the way – it sheds new light on his self control. He must have to work on it constantly?

I think I said once before - he's from one of the lesser parts of Launceston, a very rough part of the world where drinking, punting and unemployment are rife. He publicly admitted a drinking problem and seems to have controlled it. He still punts, hence his nickname.

Now don’t spread this too far Finbar – but I have a sneaky feeling Australia will blow England away in this one. England excel at anti-climaxes after all.

One the quiet, I wouldn't be surprised. The Australians have played like crap for most of the series, they have to fire at least once, you'd think. It will interesting to see whether England goes conservative with Collingwood, or positive with Anderson. Not that I think all that much of Anderson anyway. On that basis, I hope they pick him.

*edit* Forgot to mention that the new SH style game time clocks and game time sirens were not used last weekend in any games. Why? Well Premier Rugby (the clubs/RFU hybrid organisation that runs the top flight) failed to deliver them to the grounds on time. Typically English eh?

What time clocks? What time sirens?

[Havak]

Chisolm was the youngster whose name I could not remember. He accounts for the raw part, Sharpe for the lack of nounce. Sharpe in fact seems to have gone backwards this season as a player – it seems he needed a longer period of mentoring with a more senior player?

So you probably caught Matt Dunning's brain explosions, handing out penalties that utterly destroyed their fightback.

I caught a couple of penalties that took the game away from the Wallabies. I didn’t specifically register it was Dunning (my attention was not fully on the game). Normally when I see Dunning the thoughts that go through my head are mainly how someone seemingly so unfit can be playing international rugby – he blows like a cart horse all the time.

He publicly admitted a drinking problem and seems to have controlled it. He still punts, hence his nickname.

‘Punt’ meaning ‘wager’ as it does here? Did you ever get to lip read his tirade to the England balcony at Nottingham? Quality and Quantity of ‘effing and jeffing’ – lucky he kept any of his match fee after it.

I’m sure you had mentioned his origin before – I have an amazing capacity to forget things (although I still remember a time when England won an RWC final).

Not that I think all that much of Anderson anyway. On that basis, I hope they pick him.

Collingwood Finbar. A Defensive option. He has been in cracking form with the bat though.

The Aussie top order has to fire at some point. I’d prefer it to be in their next test of course.

What time clocks? What time sirens?

ERP in their wisdom decided there should be a clock in every Premiership ground this season displaying official elapsed game time and that a siren (hooter) should signal the end of play in both halves. And then they didn’t deliver them on time.

It’s interesting that our League seems to pick the very worst parts of the SH game to copy IMHO – play offs and sirens to name but two – and yet what we really need (a TMO at every game to catch all the SH pensioners lurking offside) they ignore.

[Havak]

I recall Finbar saying after the second test how Flintoff was carrying England.

What amazes me about the Aussies (and it has really surprised me) is that Warne has been single handedly carrying them the whole series. Without him I shudder to think how they would have coped. He has got them right in the game today. The quicks have been useless thus far...

[Caligastia]

Hey guys, just thought I'd pop in to let you all know that I became a Dad on September 1st at 2:18am when my son Brendan was born.

Oh, and UP THE ALL BLACKS!!!

[Caligastia]

[child of Thor]

and congratulations to the mum and dad

Still i hope you will teach him a sport that potentialy pays much better money and with much less risk than rugby [he says ruefully looking at his knee] which one can i mean

[ravagon]

Don't listen to the Welshman Cali!
Get him started young.

One of these might be the way to go ...

http://www.bearinggifts.co.nz/prod.php?section=2&c_id=00000073

[Havak]

Big Congratulations Caligastia (and your good lady) - he looks like a centre to me.

He qualifies for the Eagles too of course.

Different note entirely - the bottled bronze and most over rated centre in the UK (Charlotte Churchs squeeze Gavin Henson) is to miss six months as he needs surgery on a long standing groin problem. It means he will miss the 6N. I already thought England would beat Wales at HQ this year (I also fancy France to do them in Cardiff - sorry CoT but i think the golden times are over) - this just helps make it even more likely.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Chisolm was the youngster whose name I could not remember. He accounts for the raw part, Sharpe for the lack of nounce. Sharpe in fact seems to have gone backwards this season as a player – it seems he needed a longer period of mentoring with a more senior player?

I don't know what Sharpe's problem is. He hasn't come on. He doesn't seem to have any mongrel in him. And his handling skills seem to let him down more than they should.

‘Punt’ meaning ‘wager’ as it does here? Did you ever get to lip read his tirade to the England balcony at Nottingham? Quality and Quantity of ‘effing and jeffing’ – lucky he kept any of his match fee after it.

No, I didn't see it. Haven't seen a second of the series. He was fed up with England's stretching of the replacement rules. But not the place to show it, and he paid the price.

Collingwood Finbar. A Defensive option. He has been in cracking form with the bat though.

And he failed. I've always thought of him as one of those one-day specialists. Test cricket asks more demanding questions. As K Pietersen is finding out.

ERP in their wisdom decided there should be a clock in every Premiership ground this season displaying official elapsed game time and that a siren (hooter) should signal the end of play in both halves. And then they didn’t deliver them on time.

How was time sounded at these grounds before this?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I recall Finbar saying after the second test how Flintoff was carrying England.

What amazes me about the Aussies (and it has really surprised me) is that Warne has been single handedly carrying them the whole series. Without him I shudder to think how they would have coped. He has got them right in the game today. The quicks have been useless thus far...

To be fair, McGrath has been missing, and he came into this match not having bowled a serious ball for about three weeks. He will be better in the second dig. It will also be interesting to see how England copes without Jones, their most threatening bowler in the series. But, yes, Warne has carried the attack, and not unexpectedly after Gillespie was found wanting early on. And I maintain that Flintoff has carried England. He saved them again yesterday, as he did in the last Test.